Expertise + Improved Expertise

[One_With_Nature]

I don’t want to go into this in great detail as there has already been a very lengthy discussion previously on the forums (here); I would like to propose that we change Expertise and Improved Expertise to making the person when activating it immobile to simulate the defensive stance (Much like the Dwarven Defender defensive stance). +5 and +10 armour class given by these feats is quite a hefty bonus used in the right circumstances only works in this low level setting to prolong encounters and in some cases complete stale mates.

[Barber]

I agree this is a good idea, with the caveat that we globally apply -30 AC to all immobilized creatures.

If you are immobilized, you are immobilized.  This means improved expertise turns off, but you can also just walk up to the armored figure and easily stab them in the throat where their armor overlaps.

I guess what I am saying is, a level 2 hold person should be a save or die spell.

[EveryoneIsAWinner]

I say, there are counters you dislike it, then counter it.
You lose to it, your fault for not being prepared to handle it.

But, I like this idea, And I would suggest a Slow effect, not a Total stop.

[One_With_Nature]

If we're going to discuss this again can we please not have people trolling and cluttering up the thread like that last one.

[Valo56]

He wasn't trolling. He said that it isn't as bad as you make it out to be, but said that a slow effect (which would reduce APR, further representing being on the defensive) would be good, rather than a total stop.

I personally agree with the slow effect, it would be good, as opposed to a Dwarven Defender style stance.

[Barber]

What Valo said.  I am not trolling.  Improved expertise is a feat like any other.  It has it's strong points and it's weak points and there are plenty of counters.  I don't think modifying it to "make sense" is fair, but if we do, we should carry that thought to it's logical conclusion.

[RuinedDesires]

I think the beef people have with this feat, is how some individuals abuse it. To act superior, when in fact, they are not and should in reality. Be a bloody mess on the floor.

It's not the use of this feat that causes problems, but the -abuse- of it.

[VanillaPudding]

lol

Edit: To clarify. Expertise / IE are already removed upon application of a root / paralysis effect. They are fine, and the only real adjustment that properly fixes this is available in nwn2 via putting them at 3/6 instead of 5/10, which can't be done here afaik.

[Knight Of Pentacles]

lol

Edit: To clarify. Expertise / IE are already removed upon application of a root / paralysis effect. They are fine, and the only real adjustment that properly fixes this is available in nwn2 via putting them at 3/6 instead of 5/10, which can't be done here afaik.

^^^

[MirrorMask]

Perhaps a simple fix might be to reduce reflex save by 5/10 respectively for the feats?

[Guns 'n Roses]

It's fine, really. Not everything has to be perfectly realistic or equally balanced (attack speed of weapons, run speed despite heavily armor, wizards summoning their familiar for 6 seconds per rest, etc).

It's a significant boost to one's survivability, especially in particular situations. But those 'particular' situations (... and I have a mind to guess which kind you refer to) are easily circumvented by both players and DMs.

It has never been a requirement or great contribute to 'go far, wicked and wild' in the server.

(Besides, I wager toughness saved more characters than expertise has. The only reason that they do not compare is because Imp. Expertise makes it hard to 'burst' someone down)

[Disco]

We should leave it as it is.

[Yalta]

leave it as it is

[TeufelHunden]

Ban IE problem solved.

[Ebok]

I'd be in favor of a 3/6 boost for a 3/6 penalty