Rogue Perk Suggestions

[Vlaid]

Hey all, this ended up a bit longer than I intended, tried to cut it down as much as I could. I've had a few discussions recently in IRC over rogue perks and thought I would share my thoughts on the matter.

So yeah. Rogue perks. I think they are great, creative, and in a pretty good place in most ways now, but they still feel a little lacking to me compared to the fighter/sorc perks. I'm not talking about the power level of the perks but rather in the functionality/fluidness of them.

Let's take for example you're making a fighter. You browse through the fighter perks, maybe hoping to spur an idea for a concept. You read one and go hey, this would be a cool concept to match up with a, b and c feats/stats, and plays well into followers of from . Cool, now I got something to work off of and I can take my background perk as soon as I create my character and feel that my decision of my concept immediately makes me different when I get into my very first login with that character. Keep in mind you also get something that further fleshes out this original concept choice at 5 and 8 also.

Now let's take an example of making a rogue. You browse through the rogue perks to get some inspiration, pick out a little bit of a creative combination of the two you get, which plays well into the region you were wanting your rogue to be from. Awesome, now you login with your PC. You don't get to have your concept influence your character mechanically very much until level 5, and even then it feels like the majority of what you get is crammed into your level 8 perk (in terms of power). I realize this is done by design across all perk enabled classes but it feels a few shades too much of the power is placed in the level 8 portion of perks for rogues.

So my Grandpa always said don't complain if you don't wanna offer to help, so here's my idea.

Add a third category of perks for Rogues, which are selected at level 1. The primary function of this level 1 category of perks would be to make some kind of significant change to your rogue (in such a way that not selecting a level 1 perk may be in your best interest even!). I'll show a couple examples to see what people think about the idea first before I go crazy posting a bunch. The names are going to suck on purpose:

Bruiser
-Gain +5 to your Max HP permanently
-Bonus feat: Weapon Proficiency Martial
-Penalty of -2 to ranged attacks
-Penalty to UMD of -100 (effectively removing it from your character)

Hiding is for Wimps
-Damage Immunity of 5%
-Bonus Feat: Armor Proficiency: Medium
-Penalty to Hide and Move silently of -100 (effectively remove them from your character)

Sniper
-Increased movement speed by 15%
-Bonus feat: Called Shot
-Penalty of -2 to melee attack rolls
-Penalty of -100 to UMD (effectively removing it from your character)

Mastermind
-1/day per level+CHA modifier, charges of wands are not spent when used
-Bonus feat: Mobility
-Penalty of -1 to all attack rolls
-Lose access to sneak attack (not sure if something like this can be scripted or not)

Let's not take these specific suggested perks that seriously in terms of power balance but rather to get an idea of what I'm talking about. The main point with these is just to have something as a rogue you can pick right away that will help flesh out your concept (mechanically) in a more general sense, and not so much a specific advantage.

[EveryoneIsAWinner]

Sniper, is way to OP
15% move speed bonus at lvl one is rediculous
 
Master mind is also OP
As saving wand charges is a big deal
 
Bruiser, is brawler,
 
And Hiding is for wimps should be changed to
"Bounty Hunter" Or something along thoughs lines, as it makes for a good hard hitting hunter type.

[VanillaPudding]

That wasn't really the point of his post, it was merely to suggest that the rogue perks added actual flavor earlier and he gave loose examples.

[The Pathfinder]

I'd say that if you take the level 5 rogue perks and push their bonuses back to level 1 it would be pretty strong. I don't think we need to reinvent the wheel, but you make a good point about the RP purpose of the Rogue perks.

[OrneryBadger]

I think what he's suggesting is not the addition of new perks, but that the current bonuses which don't kick in until lvl 8 be more evenly divided. I'm not so sure about that - the lvl 1-5 perks are for ALL rogues, even multiclassed, whereas the lvl 8 perks are purely to incentivise pureclassing rogues.
 
I would be supportive (though not really vehement) of making the lvl 5 rogue perks accessable at lvl 1, but disabling them if you have less than 5 lvls of rogue, or multiclass outside of rogue at all, effectivly making all rogue perks only effective if you remain pure (this being in line with the other two perklines which require class purity or you lose all bonuses)

[Bearic]

I think the open amount of skills for rogues makes up for the amount of perks a fighter gets, but more perks are always neat.

[OrneryBadger]

I think the open amount of skills for rogues makes up for the amount of perks a fighter gets, but more perks are always neat.

True, the 903848237112 skillpoints you get is kind of a rogues lvl 1 perk. Plus sneak attack. At low lvls rogue owns, perks were introduced because there was no benefit to remaining pure at higher levels.