Important questions about PvP.

[Nihm]

There shouldn't be any "unspoken" pvp rules at all.
 
Cheap and meaningless pvp is common.  I wish it were more rare so it could be special.  If you'd beaten someone to intimidate them or force them to your cause, it isn't effective if that same thing has happened to them so many times on this server that they're just oocly bored with it.  Killing a pc isn't epic either, if its' happened so much and for so many cheap reasons that it means nothing more than the nessecity to quickly roll up a new pc.
 
Pvp, pvp threats and pvp deaths are so common that they mean nothing to experienced players, yet seem offensive and dumb to newcomers.  I think there should be stricter rules regarding pvp for those reasons.

[LaceAndLeather]

^ Can't help but agree with this. The "cheapness" is exactly what I was getting at by saying PvP shouldn't be excused from the standards of RP that are so high on EfU.

It's like people step outside of the IC/RP bubble when it comes to PvP.

[FanaticusIncendi]

It's almost never PvP that people have a problem with; it's how you choose to approach it. It's supposed to be fun—for everyone.

Bolding is mine for emphasis.

Just because it's fun for the person doing the villainry doesn't mean it's fun for the person being villained, nor does it mean it adds anything to the larger story. Sure, having your hard-earned stuff stolen, a body part cut off, or being FD'd because you are actually a villain yourself is never going to be fun, exactly. But there are ways and there are ways. The ways which involve conflict on the burner for a long, slow simmer executed with class being far preferable to the out-of-the-blue firestorm.

Please think about the PvP you are about to inflict and really consider it from outside your own perspective, and then think of ways to make it more interesting, flavorful and truly fun for everyone in the long run, qualities which I feel the PvP lately has really lacked.

Also, I agree there shouldn't be any unspoken PvP rules.

In terms of knowing whether the person you're robbing is a new player or not, for one thing I think anyone who's played here for any appreciable length of time has a general sense of who is a new player and who is not.

Failing that, what I find interesting to note is that every person I have heard of being robbed lately has been lower level. No one that I've heard of (not saying it's not happening, just that I haven't heard of it) who is higher level has been robbed, or had robbery attempted, despite the fact that they frequently walk about alone. Maybe just coincidence, maybe not. Maybe it is perfectly IC for a robber to look at a character decked out in full plate wearing the colors of some established organization and wisely avoid attempting robbery... are they really looking that closely? I don't know. It's simply food for thought.

[LaceAndLeather]

...interesting, flavorful and truly fun for everyone in the long run...

Boom. In a nutshell.

[Relinquish]

These threads pop up every few weeks it seems. There was one about there not being any obvious villain PCs last week, and now there's this one. Just ride it out the server fluctuates with what people play and you aren't always going to be happy with how things pan out.

[DeadBoondoggle]

On the other side of things, just because you do not enjoy pvp or even the event you recently experienced does not mean it wasn't "proper RP". People do things that have a consequence and often get angry when they are forced to pay for it somehow.

If your character was part of that mob that took down criminal X's friend, you may very well be held accountable for it and mugged or something. If you are in a faction or association you may be attacked for simply being someone's natural enemy due to their own faction or concept. Even more, you can be attacked just to be robbed, and while that can't really be "fun" in most situations for the victim, the things that come afterward can certainly be fun.

Take things as a grain of salt and move on. Always remember that these villainous characters are fighting with a much higher risk level than most of the people that they are actually forced to fight. If anything is an unspoken rule it's that villains cannot treat their enemies nor the community as they will be treated themselves upon a "loss".

Stoneskin, Barkskin, and things like that have -never- been a disguise and shouldn't really be treated as one, assuming we don't have any rule adjustments coming forth.

[River Walker]

If you're being fair, it shouldn't matter if they're new.

[Zborowski]

DeadBoondoggle's post is one of the few that made any real sense.

[Big Orc Man]

Imagine you're watching a movie, and the characters having a feud in-game are foes in the movie.  Try to make the end cinematic and cool.

I think that's the best approach.

But what irritates me beyond belief is when a player's character needles another character endlessly, publicly disparaging his faith, insulting his honor, what have you, and then cries foul when, eventually, it's time to pay the piper.

It's a dangerous and brutal world on a cursed isle with little hope of survival for anyone present.

If you publicly castigate Joe Cyricist, that's fine (and probably a good thing if your character would do it!), but he's fully within his right to exact revenge.

It's best, however, that killing is not the only reprisal.  However, I've seen a lot of players receive mercy, and immediately turn around and rat the person out to the Muster / assassinate them / etc.

If you're a player known for being cool and showing restraint for the purpose of story, people notice and tend to reciprocate.

If you're just out for blood, people can sense that as well.

[Valo56]

I only skimmed through the responses, sorry if I echo what someone else said.

Describe what you can based on what you saw. "Well, he used a trident, you see. I couldn't see what his skin or hair color was, though, the Bark messed with that. His armor looked heavy, and he carried a tower shield. No helm." is a perfectly acceptable description, while still leaving them somewhat unknown by virtue of not knowing anything other than their equipment.

In the past, Stone/Barkskin and blur were disguises and events were retconned in the past when people ignored them.

As for the bit about stuff being fun or not.. Always behave IC. If your concept demands you mug someone, do what is IC and mug them. Do your best to make your character an interesting and worthwhile part of EfU, and behave accordingly when confronted by any situation, regardless of whether your opposition is NPC or PC, as both can result in perma-death for you or even other people.

Generally speaking, if you haven't met someone and all of a sudden they're mugging you, they won't take everything, or even close to everything. A bit of healing, some blur, maybe a haste, and they send you on your way. If they take a lot, they give you a way to get it back. Of course, there are exceptions, and sometimes someone takes "too much," but rather than getting upset about how you lost everything, focus on what to do next.

If you suspect cheating, metagaming or something else unacceptable from an OOC standpoint, best to go to DM's.

In my experience, PvP is common. PvP with looting is uncommon. PvP with mutilation is rare. PvP with death is a big event that tends to be talked about for days. Pretty much as it should be.

[Big Orc Man]

The problem with things like Stoneskin and Barkskin functioning as disguises is thus:

The coolest characters are unique and have roleplayed characteristics.  If Stoneskin and Barkskin make a character disguised unless they portray anything obvious, it simply encourages boring, wordless ganks with no flair or interesting stuff happening.

In that scenario, being cool and unique has a massive, massive downside.

Disincentivizing interesting play is always a problem!

Every character would realistically have their own quirks, the way they stand, the way they fight, etc. that are not shown due to NWN limitations.  Why penalize those who go the extra mile to be entertaining by being unique?

[Zborowski]

Stoneskin and blur aren't disguises, by the way. They never have been. They can -assist- a bit, in combination with other disguise measures. That is all.

[Aethereal]

There shouldn't be any "unspoken" pvp rules at all.

I am a fan of no unspoken rules too.

[Urlen]

I second BoM on the quirks of a character. I enjoy people who put effort into maximizing the feature of your character. Fighting styles, likes and dislikes (beliefs), and making their appearance memorable rather than forgettable. With detail even the most bland of molds can be refined through detail.

Just not inception-like details.

[Jayde Moon]

The 'Unspoken Rules' I mentioned aren't 'Hard and Fast Rules That Aren't Posted Somewhere'.  They are all of the very valid viewpoints that people are posting in this very thread, most of which aren't really enforceable.  They are the methods and attitudes when you go about handling PvP in a way that lends itself to style, class, and great storytelling.