H'bala Vines

[One_With_Nature]

I don't know how others feel about this but i recently come across this as i've been playing a character who has invested a lot in stealth skills/equipment.

I spent quite a lot of time when not many people are online exploring the wilderness and i come across a lot of monsters but the scariest of all, the H'bala vines. I feel like they are slightly over powered for the following reasons and think they should have one of the following reduced or removed considering they can be found in quite a lot of commonly traveled areas:

1. They can usually be found in groups of larger then one
2. They have reletively good stealth (Enough to go un-noticed by a PC for long enough to attack from stealth even with stealth detection)
3. They have On hit Paralyse ability that lasts long enough to kill the majority of PC's out there and has a reletively high DC (Higher then the typical assassins vines i've noted)
4. Unlike Assassin vines which they seem to be similar in most respects, not only can they see through invisibility they can also see through stealth.
5. They have fairly decent AB and high damage
6. Fairly decent HP

I understand as it goes without saying by the name "Assassin" that this is the desired effect, it just seems to be they could perhaps do with a slight nerf (Either make them roll listen checks vs Stealth like assassin vines or perhaps lower the dc on the paralyse slightly i won't write on here what it is but it is slightly higher then typical assassin vines.)

[athousandyearsofpain]

I think the fact that you can walk (not run) away from them without them having a chance to catch up should allow them to be pretty strong. Its a mob you don't have to fight if you don't want to.
There is also no trouble detecting them even without invested points in detection. Maybe their detection is higher than Assassin Vines but I am pretty sure they can't see through invisibility.

[TheImpossibleDream]

I think saying that they are difficult to detect with stealth detections (spot and listen) is an exaggeration and agree with athousandyearsofpain's post.

[Winston Martin]

I think they are excellent for introducing real risk to solo stealth nature PCs swooping @ rewards and gathering fruits. The DC vs. paralysis seems reasonable and as has been said you can just walk away.

[One_With_Nature]

I think they are excellent for introducing real risk to solo stealth nature PCs swooping @ rewards and gathering fruits. The DC vs. paralysis seems reasonable and as has been said you can just walk away.

I do agree that there should be those threats out there like that, and honestly the only time i have spotted the vines even with detection skills is when i have transitioned into an area where they have just spawned. As for the paralysis DC, it is high considering you can't block it with protection from alignement. I would say for an average pc that hasn't heavily invested in fortitude saves you're looking at a 50/50 chance of making the save.

[prestonhunt]

Well, if you're out there gathering -anyway-, maybe you should dedicate a run to getting a pile of inoculation potions, then use them when you enter withered areas.  It'll help.

[Wrexsoul]

I agree partially with the above though, in that they can be very OOCly cruel enemies if you are the slightest bit unlucky. Basically, if you fail 2 decently high DC rolls (their stealth, and their paralysis) you will be dead without being able to do -anything- to prevent it. You won't see them coming, and you won't be able to act once they attack you.

Granted, if you spot them, or resist the paralysis, you're good. But if not, you run into the old OOC "players don't like to die without having been able to do something to prevent it" trouble, that has caused so much frustration in so many games.

Also, I'd be surprised if they didn't have Tremorsense, as neither stealth or invisibility seems to help one bit. Maybe removing this would balance them a bit? Having an enemy that sneaks, basically has a DC vs death attack, and sees through stealth and invis automatically feels a bit over the top.

[Sponduli]

The paralysis can be blocked by Protection from Evil, which can be obtained in large amounts fairly easily.

[prestonhunt]

Having just checked the logs on a recent encounter, I am surprised to determine that Sponduli is in fact right.  That makes 2 plausible layers of defence against these.

[Relinquish]

H'bala vines may be evil, but assassin vines aren't, only works for one of them.

[Wrexsoul]

Oh, that's pretty fair, then. That gives you a plausible defense against one of the two "death without a chance" factors.

[Sponduli]

Much of these enemy's difficulty can be negated with proper preparation. It's something that you should have, anyways, when going through the heavily withered areas that the vines are found in. You wouldn't walk through the tundra without plenty of covering, would you?

[One_With_Nature]

Oh i didn't realise protection from evil stops it, my bad. No problem here then.

[So What If I Am A Goblin?]

Why would PfE stop a poison paralysis though...

Sounds like a bug to me.

[Big Orc Man]

They're very dangerous, but very avoidable by alert parties.

That sounds like an excellent monster to me!  Cull the careless.