Werecat abilities

[Two Houses In Fair Verona]

This thread details werecat abilities and the poignant question of why it received -4 strength- the consensus seemed that no one knew why.

I propose removing the strength penalty. Cats are muscular creatures and It's insulting to think that a rat can be stronger than a cat.

[CatScratchFever]

I found this which might explain a possible mix up.

Admittedly, I would be okay with the DMs changing my animal form to a foot tall house cat :3

[TheImpossibleDream]

I think it's more a case of a mix up in animal forms. It should be a small cat, not a panther. My werecat had -6 strength (stargazer penalty/bonuses stack) and I was absurdly powerful due to the dexterity bonus, so I don't see the strength drain as much of an issue.

Granted I would say wererat could use to lose some of its strength in kind, its a bit powerful for something based on, well a rat...

Edit: Thinking about it, I recall being told it isn't possible to modify the size of a player model, so the animal form may be a panther due to engine limitations as it is.

Also for those who don't know. Werecats gain weapon finesse for free and by level 6 have great-axe claws which use their dex to determine ab, not strength. They can easily have enough stealth to be completely undetectable even with powerful divination magics. (Mine sat somewhere near the late 50's when buffed) In turn without even investment they can have incredibly high spot and listen and ungodly saving throws (my pure rogue had a will save of 14). 10/+1 dr and 5/+2 dr to boot.

I would say their low strength is probably the only draw back to the race.

[CatScratchFever]

The only real issue I have with the -4 STR is that it effectively lowers your weight limit/encumbrance rate by that much (the -2 damage lost from the STR penalty is easily made up by the 2d6 damage). I carry 30 lbs less than my base form is capable of because changing to were/animal form would cut down my movement speed by half.

Prowling around for 1 or 2 hours at a time, using a bull's strength every fifteen minutes can get expensive.

[Egon the Monkey]

Yeah, weres could use some form of drawback, they're one of the few monsters without a loss of any stats and tend to out survive any other sort of monster race. Even without counting the mechanics Naga states, they have the RP advantage. They can get a few levels before showing themselves, and can take ages to be located as what they are. Even then you still have to find and beat them, no easy task. Back when  they only had the 10/1 DR at least PCs could often have an item around  to be able to hurt the were PC.

I've always thought werecreatures should be running Will save penalties on account of their feral nature, not big bonuses. It'd give them some sort of weakness to be able to pin them down with.

[TheImpossibleDream]

The only real issue I have with the -4 STR is that it effectively lowers your weight limit/encumbrance rate by that much (the -2 damage lost from the STR penalty is easily made up by the 2d6 damage). I carry 30 lbs less than my base form is capable of because changing to were/animal form would cut down my movement speed by half.

Prowling around for 1 or 2 hours at a time, using a bull's strength every fifteen minutes can get expensive.

Fun fact the werecat models run speed is slightly faster than pc movement unless they are barbarians/rangers. Even if you encumber easily you make up for it by being able to run faster than most.

If you -really- need to travel somewhere with something that will encumber you, you have the option of going there in stealth completely undetectable, albeit at a much slower pace.

As for expense, I'm not sure I want to outline how easy it would be for an evil lycantrophy to cover his/her expenses <_<

[Nihm]

I'd agree the strength drawback makes little sense and should be removed, especially if none of the other werebeasts have that.

[Ebok]

Something does seem out of whack here. Although, the strength of these lycans on offense and defense considered... I'd suggest that the other forms be given a downside as well. :/ Rather then making something very strong, stronger.

[VanillaPudding]

They have a major downside as it is, like many other monster PCs do. The strength reduction never did make much sense to me, but in the end I think they are all well balanced when you consider their level adjustment and RP restrictions.

[Jagged]

Removed the strength penalty and set the creature weapon to 1d10?

[putrid_plum]

i hate the mentality that all subraces and classes must be balanced and the same, also i think thats werecats are one of the few lycanthropes that can be neutral and good aligned which might have something to do with the added negatives.

[Ebok]

It is less to do with balance, plum. A were-panther (which is what they are in efu) is not a were-cat, which is what they are stat'ed as. Mind you, they're powerful regardless so it's not a big deal.

The logical point of a dire-rat being stronger then a panther is lol however.

[CryptWarden]

I fail to see how +2 dmg is game breaking when they already receive upward to +4 AB from their Dex Bonus. It isn't going to make them any stronger.

Edit: I am just pointing out how ridiculous it is that a PANTHER- one of the strongest felines out there, is weaker than a dire rat.

[Ebok]

I think the point of contention was weight carried, not damage.

[TheImpossibleDream]

It is less to do with balance, plum. A were-panther (which is what they are in efu) is not a were-cat, which is what they are stat'ed as. Mind you, they're powerful regardless so it's not a big deal.

The logical point of a dire-rat being stronger then a panther is lol however.

Werecats are werecats, werepanthers would have different stats than werecat entirely. Most of the big cat lycantrophies gain massive amounts of strength e.g tiger +6~8 <_<