PVP And why it's the only thing that matters

[Egon the Monkey]

Dude, that quote of mine is a joke from IRC about how EfU is different to what most people see as "sandbox" games. It's meant to be absurdly overblown.

As for Numisghat, that sounds like fairly interesting conflict. He's not trying to destroy you, the PC's only attempting to bully you into joining his faction and having a plot. That doesn't give you any permanent setbacks. You could attempt to turn all other monks against him, report him to the Muster, con him into attacking you openly and facing IC repercussions. Or you could join him to learn to be a tougher monk and maybe pick up some PVP tips ICly. Or, stay relaxed, pretend to do things his way and just wait for the PC to die before spitting on his grave. Several of my PCs have played nice with PCs they hated to avoid direct conflict, while running huge amounts of weaponry and info to their enemies :D.

[Barber]

Not directly on topic, but related.  I think less PVP would end in full damage kills if people would show a little fear.  It is frustrating to beat someone's head in and then they laugh at you about it.  I am not going to name names or even hint at names.

Why does no one cower for their life?  Why does no one beg?  Why does no one cry and agree to do whatever the person who has beaten them to a bloody pulp and is about to cut their head off, asks of them?

Does everyone always have to be Super McBadass all of the time?

It does happen, I am sure, but i've never seen it.  Every time I've been on the "winning" side of a PVP scenario, the person has mouthed off and refused to be submissive.  This irks me.

When you beat someone up and their response is to spit out blood, laugh and vow revenge...

[Ebok]

I have never used PvP as a way to succeed. I'm sure it's possible, but generally speaking... It bores me. I've hand plenty of skirmishes and plenty more epic adventures. If you cannot beat someone, run faster. It's a surprisingly effective tactic so long as you're not running into a dead end.

[Orcus? Me? Never!]

Me not winning PvP unless I have a whole army behind me can say that PvP hasn't got me anywhere but dead. But Death, as its stated over and over again is a huge part of this server, and should be treated as such. So I think that PvPing is great fun in the respect that it influences some things, but as long as you have fun doing whatever you want to do, and expect death, nothing to be upset about.

Reach for the stars and hit the moon, and... well die..

[Equinox]

Bonescreech's Monk sounds fucking awesome.

PvP is a way of life on efu, if you refuse to acknowledge that you're doing yourself a disservice. Not everythign has to end in PvP, but a lot of stuff does! Thats because its not like the real world, in ye olde times, if someone rocked your boat you took them down.

Throwing toys out the pram because you dislike PvP is a silly way to go about it. RwG hates pvp cause he looses all the time. (but when he does win he gets overjoyed) PvP is fun, EfU is fun, conflict is going to happen. It's better to accept it and move on, stay away from high conflict pc's if you don't like it.

[Letsplayforfun]

I'd add that being good at mechanics and winning pvp doesn't necessarily make you a good/esteemed player/pc.

PvP is a mean to get somewhere, not a goal in itself. Making a good storytelling and community friendly pvp is actually hard.

If you crush people on your way with no regards for what they are trying to do, you're not "winning". If your pvps are the routine potion contests or powerbuilt or always waiting to be on the advantagous side, you're not "winning".

I'd add that winning a pvp is not that hard. Even I manage it once in a while, the rare times I actually pvp. And hells, I'm such a noob I manage to cast speed on my opponent and hold person on my allies.

Winnin a fight once in a while is not that hard. But being a good loser of pvp is much harder. A good loser brings a lot to storytelling and overall fun.

Being good at pvp makes you noticeable, but don't confuse being noticeable with being admired, if that's what you're after.

[HaveLuteWillTravel]

Being good at pvp makes you noticeable, but don't confuse being noticeable with being admired, if that's what you're after.

A very important statement, in my opinion. I like to think of it this way, it's like sports highlights...the big, flashy plays make the highlight reel, but the stifling defense that actually won the game didn't.

PvP is the easiest and quickest way for your PC to gain a name, but it really doesn't mean that character has accomplished a lot, really. That's not to say some don't, but it's certainly not the only way to.

I'm horrible at PvP, and I'd like to think some of my PCs have accomplished a bit. I'd also like to think that they're entertaining to be around, which to me is the most important thing since we play this game for fun. Achievement in a fantasy world is just that, fantasy.

[Kinslayer988]

The signature is a joke but truly it is about conflicts and plots rather than utter pvp.

[Kinslayer988]

It's like a football line that is under appreciated to the "all-star" skill players.

[Drakill Tannan]

While i enjoy PvM far more than PvP, PvP is an exelent way of creating a storyline between two PCs of oposing factions when apropiate. However FD PvP generally sucks imo. Now, the real problem, i think, is beautifully expressed here:

It is frustrating to beat someone's head in and then they laugh at you about it.  I am not going to name names or even hint at names.

When you beat someone up and their response is to spit out blood, laugh and vow revenge...

Want to gain an edge over a PC? To "defeat" him? It's not posible. Players will make a terrible, Terrible and unreal "badass" roleplay.

• You can't scare away somone from meddling in your plans, he'll just come back with help.
• You can't force somone into your service. He'll abuse NPC presence and times when your PC is logged off to betray you, no exception.
• You can't intimidate somone into "cooling down" and say, stop hunting or whatever, they'll do so anyway, after they've been healed and while you're offline.

And honestly, that's the playerbase's fault. Bad roleplay thanks to a "I must win!" mentality just makes non-FD PvP useless. I take it paladins and certian PCs should be able to ignore the above and do what most PCs do right now, but seriously, 80% of the PCs should be willing to do -anything- to be left alive, and be scared of their attackers.

With non-FD PvP being useless, the only real way to stop somone, or opose somone by force is to end his PC. Hence why PvP is the only thing that seems to matter among player-driven plots.

I'm sure plots with DMs involved are diferent. If i rember right, Mayor Quilby is all in for exiling, but not at all willing to execute. That is good, because it doesn't mean that if your PC gets caught you'll have to end him. On the downside, after being exiled, the only way to stop a PC from doing things is to FD it. And that sucks. But again, that's the player's fault.

IMO next time you are subdued, act as if you were the PC: Beg for your life and cry for mercy, like you'd do irl. If offered the chance to live in exchange for service, take it or ask the PC to FD you. If "intimadted" or "forced", step away from the plot, there will be others. If you are drafted into aiding the other PC, don't betray it the first moment you get, nor completly ignore him once you get to an NPC filled area.

If enough playrs do that, FD won't be necesary in most cases.

[Big Orc Man]

There are plenty of people who do react ICly to threats, intimidation, etc.

Unfortunately, there aren't as many as would be preferable!  You can usually recognize them as the players who are more interested in creating flavor and atmosphere than rubbing your face in the dirt!

[Craig210]

After over a year on EFU, I have a list of players who i have learned just wont do what they promise and will come back a day later with a FD gank squad. You slowly learn who is best to build conflict with, and who is best just killing/avoiding.

[O'louth]

I may be new here.. Yet I would imagine that since you run into this problem anywhere in the gaming world to a lesser or larger degree, that I can say my piece.
 
Sure, there are certainly people who feel ooc offended by being bullied, and feel they lose face when they lose IG. Or simply dont want to lose, and therefore will not act "realisticly" to a direct threat.
 
Yet, I would say, it entirely depends on what you ask, or how you go about your threat.
 
If Robert the Militia man investigated Mikey of Mask the Mighty thief, and Robert was caught by the Mask gang.
 
If asked "You are going to give us your keys, and you are then gonna help us get inside your organization HQ, so we can kill your boss and take over the world, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"
 
Chances of spit in face and the throwing of broken teeth at you are rather high.
 
If all you ask is "Now, Mr Robert. You have seen what we can do. Do you really want to die... Or shall we depart as the best of chums, hmm? I let you live... and you stop looking into my business. And, perhaps one of these days, I am going to stop by, with a small favor. Nothing big... I hope you wont refuse."
 
If you then drop, say, a few hundred gold pieces into Roberts hand, and part ways...
 
I imagine chances of success would be alot higher.

[derfo]

How many times a year do we need a thread for this? It is always a miasma of misinformation sprinkled with a few gems whenever it appears. Lock this garbage.

[Divine Intervention]

PvP is not the only thing that matters.  However conflict/pvp are what makes a game or anything interesting and fun imo.  I personally would be bored to tears by a game solely based on sitting around a table talking about the construction of a new barn.  This is a fantasy game filled with enemies and good/evil.  People are bound to come into conflict due to opposing views and sides, so yes pvp is important but it's not the only thing that matters.