DM Quest Spice

[One_With_Nature]

I personally have enjoyed the raise in spiced quests/DM events of late, i think they have been very challenging and potentially rewarding depending on the risk your willing to take. In most casses i have found myself using -alot- of supplies but you will generally find the reward is based on risk. In general i find it to be fun (Because i like a challenge) and i've seen alot of interesting rewards (Unusual loot/Unique items).

Great work from the DM team imo.

[Jagged]

I just try to focus on the story and the characters and try to forget about the loot and levels, even though I'm /really/ into mechanics and love PvP and all that. It's not as bad when you get face smashed this way. =P

The only thing I'd wish different was to see some more consistency as to how NPCs fight, because such encounters usually seem lacking in such. Like for example:

*One time had an NPC jump out of invis and cast a 26 DC Death Spell on me, instantly killing me. Normal. Happens. Part of the game.

*Another time my party encountered an epic NPC, whom kept OOCly holding back although he had all the reason to just kill us as soon as he could. Like, for example, he'd drop one or two of us into the negatives, and then run away to "reposition", instead of just finishing them off, thus leaving an overall "artificial" feel to the entire battle, like as if the DM was choosing who he wanted to live or die.

I understand that big encounters are hard to balance, and that DMs might miscalculate things sometimes, but I would really just prefer for the DM to pause the game for ten or fifteen seconds to re-adjust the stats on the big boss of epic, instead of having to make the NPC "forget" to finish that dude that's helplessly sprawled on the floor five times in the same fight so that he doesn't wipe the floor with the entire party.

[Jagged]

Oh yeah, and stop giving us potions for rewards. We get tons of those already!

I mean, really. I always have more potions and consumables than I have quickslots! >.>

And this is without "hoarding".

Honestly, I'd rather get a /very/ minor improvement to the gear that I'm wearing, like for example getting a +2 Lore +2 Spellcraft tunic when my wizard has none instead of getting those two sludge potions.

But that's just me. =P

[Barber]

No, please DO keep giving us potions as rewards on quests.  I love it when the group gets a huge stock of potions, it helps equip us for next time!

[Seanzie]

give me the potions, not him.

[Barber]

Myself and Seanzie are both ready to fight to the death, and possibly kill Jagged along the way, to make sure you keep giving us potions as quest rewards!  It is simple loot to give and ALWAYS appreciated!

[Kinslayer988]

make sure you keep giving us potions as quest rewards! It is simple loot to give and ALWAYS appreciated!

In my preferance I myself enjoy interesting items/loot and experience. Although it is hard to regain what supplies is lost, you will eventually be refilled.

[Winston Martin]

Your fighters should be ashamed giving sludge potions to wizards.

[Keeper of the White Wyrm]

I think this has gone off topic.


Summation: Spice without reward or xp is sometimes frustrating to handle.

Sometimes spice is a prelude to dm loot or possible dm quests.

Spice is most always appreciated.

[Gippy]

The best stories are not linear. 4 weeks of playing should /not/ make you level 10, fully stocked, fully kitted killing machine. One should never assume a quest, barring the simplest of deleveries, will net a reward. That is metagaming. You are rolling the dice everytime you leave the town, hoping to scrape by or strike it rich. Scripted quests without spice are usually a guranteed reward-- and thus lead to an idea of linear progression that is anathema to a good story and game world. Spice, with great rewards, or terrible losses makes the game world unpredictable.

It seems to me that the DM team has been doing an excellent job of spicing /everyone/ so rest assured you're all in the the same situation when it comes to conflict with other players -- a situation of uncertainty. PvP is not always settled by powerbuilds and endless potions, it is usually decided by choices, alliances and chance. I have lost many PCs (powerfuly mechanicaly monstrous PCs) to such things, but also won improbable fights by the same stroke.

Spice helps create the gameworld of danger and uncertainty that makes EFU fun. Sometimes we must bend our characters to the circumstances of poverty and ill luck they have suffered and sit begging on the street for the supplies needed for adventuring. And sometimes we should take our hoard of consumables and strike out for power over others and glory. Always though, we should play our characters and ask ourselves: how would they react to the uncertainty and dangers of the mist...?

[Semli]

If the true goal of the DM team is utter unpredictability in the gameworld, my sincere recommendation is to automate higher end spice and random encounters to the highest extent possible in order to avoid the inevitable intrusion of bias in the gameworld and to make things as truly as random, or fair, as possible.

Of course, the policy of the DM team has always been, in so far that I am aware, that the most interesting PCs get the most interesting perks/encounters, which is not necessarily a bad approach to things. Certainly many of the PCs that have risen to prominence and accomplished great acts have had DM help in many forms along the way. One might even go so far as to say permission for most of said acts. Considering the nature of PWs and the behavior of the average RPG player, again, this is not necessarily a bad thing. This accepted practice however seems to go in the face of everyone being spiced equally with equal reward, and what's more, seems to be more the reality of the situation as opposed to this recently suggested ideal of mutual uncertainty.

The problem is, despite intents, when characters are spiced and rewarded in drastic variance by virtue of having different DMs or their characters being less interesting due to newness or other factors, it creates an environment where people feel unfairly treated. Certainly we all want an atmospheric gameworld, but if I can relate my failures or trials to specific DMs as opposed to a dice rolling machine, all that is created is an atmosphere of hostility and alienation. The DM team must endeavor to provide rewards equal to the challenges faced and attempt to be as uniform as possible in this regard - it is not good enough to act on whim or for one or more to be unduly heavy handed and miserly.

I know that my experience is improved when I have more people to interact with - indeed, the lifeblood of any server is the amount of bodies it can attract and the length of time it can maintain their interest. Any policy or person that goes in the face of this even inadvertently is counter intuitive.

[Egon the Monkey]

As far as spice reward goes, I am a big fan of the Warrior Lockers, Thieves' Kits, Arcanist Satchels etc that come in various sizes and powers. Means there's something for everyone and it's simple to match risk and reward if a team's had more than just a few haste potions thrown on the boss. As far as spice goes, it's at it's most fun when it's something surprising and interesting, rather than the feeling that we're getting WTFPWN thrown down. I've been spiced 3 times on gnolls this week in various ways. My favourite was the DM who added the odd attack behind us, and spiced a normally empty room with a Boulder Drop Trap. Both of these changed the nature of the battle and stopped it feeling routine. On the other hand, if I see certain DM's names in the chat log, I start quickslotting my Cure Crits and Retreat potions... :P

It's good to see a DM taking an interest in your party, but as it shows here it can feel like they're out to get your PC if they don't follow up tough spice with an XP, plot or supplies reward. It's not wanting to profit off everything but to show that the DM was spicing you for everyone's entertainment rather than aiming to burn some resources off the PC. Even crazy spice can be dealt with if you throw all your PCs resources at it, but that runs him out. So it's no good saying "Should have used that Sludge Drink" if there's no feeling the PCs would get anything back. Otherwise, spice can look like like a punishment for doing well enough to have supplies without also being a PC 'deserving of reward'. Semli puts it better than I do.

[GoldenArrow]

Thoughts upon finishing four pages of this topic;

It seems to me that if the NPC who hired you to go into X to kill Y, so to speak, did not tell you there would be Q, J, and Z there as well, and thereby nearly caused your death (or indeed, caused the deaths of your companions), it would probably be wise to further the RP and appraise him of your displeasure.

And then beat him senseless.  

If you're looking for reward on quests ICly - and most people are - it makes sense that, well, that's what you'd be looking for on quests.  If the risks are outweighing the possible gains, there's no reason to continue on unless there's a prospect of gain.  I'm not saying you should purposely avoid DM spice; I'm saying that if you're in it for the gold, act like it.

If, however, your character is going on a quest to save the Merpeople of Little Mermaid Land from the Evil Beast of Killgorn, the reward is the satisfaction of having done something good and right, and possibly the love of the Merpeople.  This is not palpable, and it will not carry you into the next epic battle with any chance of survival, but hell; that's the risk you take as an adventure.

Risk vs. Reward?

[Mort]

I'm busy building new quests and exploration areas for EFU:M, but once that's done.

I'll give you all some salt to go with those spices.

[Howlando]

I feel that this thread is somewhat distracting and misleading, although there's a lot of nice nuggets of wisdom sort of scattered in here. What I would focus on is that if players have specific problems with a specific incident to contact the DM involved, or myself if it goes beyond that. However, if you actually look closely, basically no one is really even complaining more just philosophizing about spice in general.

But the plethora of posts about the topic makes one almost imagine there's a problem.

At any rate, it is very easy to avoid spice. We really don't want to spice players that do not desire it.

It's nice to have some new DMs who are into it recently, and I think it's something positive we can all appreciate that we have some nice DM activity nowadays.