DM Quest Spice

[LiAlH4]

DM spice is great for RP and immersion, supplies are transient and if anything break immersion. If you want your character to do something great in the world, to survive in places where it is often difficult to do so, you'd better have those potions and consumables hotkeyed and ready to be used!

One just has to deal with the lack of supplies and keep on fighting! You'll get it all back in the end, one way or another. :)

[chezcaliente]

I have to say I understand all sides of the argument here.

"Feeling unrewarded", however that might take shape, is never an appealing reason to play a game. So as long as everyone gets -something- out of playing, even if its just a pat on the back I think we're all good. And when I say everyone here, I mean DMs as well as players. We're all meant to be enjoying this.

My main suggestion would be for DMs who have done some seriously intense spice or DM quest, where some or many PCs end up worse off on both supplies and experience because they died or whatever, is just make sure they receive and ooc tell or something saying: "sorry about the hurt, but you did well, you roleplayed well etc"

It can be hard to keep track, but I think acknowledging that someone has been made worse off by the spice/quest goes a long way to help them just enjoy the attention and the game for being a game!

My only other comment is that for some of us, we just aren't mechanically proficient enough to use all our supplies under pressure! I know for myself, a number of times I have forgotten what I have in my pack, or i'm so terrified ooc-ly about saving myself and allies that I just can't think quick enough what the most efficient thing to do mechanically would be.

The time it takes for me to sort out what I should do, is usually the time it takes for me to die. And then the situation is even worse, as then all my quickslots are gone for the remainder of the quest, and my inventory is a mess for the remainder of the quest... so decision making takes even longer.

So when you next discover that corpse with a pack of useful supplies, think of me. I probably was mashing my keypad and clicking things randomly in a state of panic moments earlier.

[el groso]

OMG, DM is giving me spice, plot and attention, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Semli]

Sometimes players overreact. Sometimes DMs go heavy handed and, victory or defeat, don't really toss in anything extra besides whatever randomly dropped on the mobs.

For players, using supplies effectively is a fine art. Blurring potions, when used in the right circumstances, are less costly than the healing (and numerous actions used for healing during combat). You have to understand the spells well and using that understanding, strike an effective balance of what to use, when, and holding back when it isn't necessary. Achieving that perfect zen of consumption and hoarding is how the more mechanically adept players get ahead. The only other bit of advice I can give you is some situations in EFU:M aren't survivable; if it seems hopeless, that means it probably is. Drink an invis and leave. If you have something like a paladin code, demand everyone else retreat then do so after they have some distance on you.

Attention is nice, but ideally, reward should scale with difficulty. This isn't always the case. More mobs, though offering more chances at random loot like medicine bags and rags, is not scaling reward. Possessing mobs and using intelligent play for casters and the boss should also merit more reward, and in my experience, very rarely do.

And of course, the opposite is also true; some DMs are willing to give ample reward, but expect to challenge groups that when taken on average, really aren't all that mechanically proficient or well supplied. I can offer no concrete advice here - good balance where players feel challenged yet rewarded is a zen art as well. You can only strive to do better in such circumstances.

[Listen in Silence]

I for one welcome the return to how EFU looked for a period in the Underdark and early EFU:A, when not every two weeks old character was lvl 8+ with pages of supplies.

This level of spice is excellent and immersion heightening.

[Paha]

I'm always someone who likes to speak for the variety and "reality" of the world we play in. Sometimes you will face something you cannot necessarily defeat, or end up in situation where you've failed and lost the chance to overcome your obstacle. There isn't always even reward for it, and retreat is often an option that people refuse to use. You need to remember, you all have dead characters. That if anything should remind you, that you can fall, you can die and that you can also fail.

Actions do have consequences. Sometimes this action is to choose the road forward and facing that obstacle, instead of withdrawing. Don't assume anything when something happens, and don't assume too much on quests. If you just play by with what you see infront of you - then you'll be fine. Sometimes you won't get rewarded, but who knows what happens the time after that when you've valliantly pushed through in hard spot without gaining much.

[Bearic]

I like spice myself, but if things get too hard you could always ask a dm to calm things down a bit during. They're very reasonable. =]

[Seanzie]

Its not so much the spice or attention, as the fact that in the end one character is happy, or two, but the rest are left in the dust.

[Keeper of the White Wyrm]

Its not so much the spice or attention, as the fact that in the end one character is happy, or two, but the rest are left in the dust.

I'll go ahead and say it.

Hagar doesn't split loot fairly.

[Seanzie]

Not loot, exp and lvl loss.

[Kinslayer988]

I would agree with Seanzie about the XP part as well. That is usually what I see as a common pat on the back reward.

[Canzah]

I feel obligated to remind you that even on normal vanilla scripted quests sometimes people die and you need to use many of your supplies simply to survive.

That aside however, I am not sure I quite understand the root of your frustration. At first I thought it was greedy people who take the lion's share of loot at the end, but now you say "Not loot, exp and lvl loss.".

Well, I honestly have little advise on that part. What I can say is that there's no shame in playing it safe during a quest. Unless your concept absolutely demands you charge into a wall of death, you can take every measure possible to survive. Even with that in mind many of us "veterans" or people who are just gifted when it comes to the mechanics of NWN still die sometimes. Sometimes we die a lot. But that's just something everyone has to deal with sooner or later. Place focus upon your concept rather than level, and it won't feel as disheartening to continue at a low level simply because you enjoy the character for what it is.

[Seanzie]

Well, it was IC for me to yell out "Attack me" When a lvl 5 druid was getting owned by the really hard special boss, and then the thing just killed me with no mercy. I loose my levels, get no exp, and get no loot. So its a mixture of both, mostly to the I would rather have my lvls back then the loot that was possible.

[Big Orc Man]

Yelling "attack me!" at a big scary monster, especially one that had just recently subdued and spared you, is fine - but also likely will result in the IC consequence of death!

[Wrexsoul]

As someone who is a "mechanic noob", doesn't quest often and generally otherwise fitting the template for "going to probably end up dead when stuff gets hard" player (ask LPFF), I have also noticed the increased spice lately. In particular, one rough streak a few days ago was going on a hard DM quest, using up all my supplies during it and losing a level, and then ending up facing down a massively spiced Gnolls quest the next time I was online. After this series of events, I've got to say-

I LOVE IT. Yes, it's rough to lose your supplies and your XP. Yes, I sit there cursing at the bloody servant of Khelemvor in the bloody fugue plane just like the rest of you. But in the end, I play this game to experience the story, to roleplay, to take part in the awesome adventures that cause the pages of the story to get written. Losing all my supplies will have catastrophic short-term consequences, but in a few days, they'll be back, even with my questing tempo. Losing my xp is a pain, since it takes me so long to build it up, but they are only numbers, and they do not greatly affect the story.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is; Shit happens, it sucks, but it's all a matter of perspective. Instead of seeing what you lost mechanically; Look at what you gained story-wise. You got to take part of something special, where one of the authors of the world took special interest in you, and which might very well lead to awesome stuff down the road. Supplies and levels can be gained back, but -actual- experiences are trickier to compensate for.

Don't get me wrong now; I fully understand and share the pain of losing so much mechanical stuff - I've a fair few times also been there, slamming my fist in my desk and cursing at the monitor, but every time, in a few days, it's been fine again, and when I think back to it I remember not the numerical experience I lost, but the experience of the story that I gained. I think much can be made to feel a great deal better with a change of focus.