DM Quest Spice

[Seanzie]

Well, I dont mean this to be a mean or rude thread, but as of lately, most every quest is being spiced, and to the point where you use most of your supplies, or all of your supplies, and usually get zero back, or exp. And for me, its been use supplies, die, respawn XP loss, use more supplies, get none back, no DM exp. I would just like to know if im not the only one who gets that same feeling in the community.

[AClockworkMelon]

I've enjoyed all the spice I've gotten so far. It's really cool to be fighting goblins, kobolds or whatever and they start calling out specific PCs, that sort of thing. It's been a little tougher, usually they spawn in more enemies (or at least it seems that way), but it's not been anything we couldn't handle.

[Keeper of the White Wyrm]

The lack of reward for spice is getting vexsome, yes, but it's nothing I cannot handle or withstand.

[Nightshadow]

I've noticed it's been getting harder to accumulate supplies and levels.. before I could hit level 8 no problem, now I have difficulty keeping 6, not to mention a decent supply of even basic healing. Then spice comes by and often I just barely pull through, if that.

It'll get better in time, I recommend trying to find non-quest ways of gaining gold and supplies, though, for now, if quests and spice are frustrating you (and death after death with little to no reward can be very frustrating, even if the spice/quest itself was very fun). Such as hunting, alchemy/herbalism, mercantile, mercenary work, bounty hunting, etc. I certainly don't want DM's to spice quests less, though.

[Seanzie]

I dont want them less, and the two above are too macho to admit it and/or get rezzed then fuck our whole party then get all the loot. *cough*

[Kinslayer988]

I understand what you mean Seanzie and things indeed are getting tougher on this server. Although yes, it is good to have some uniqueness and interest occuring on quests but when you finish these sometimes VERY DIFFICULT quests you are left with NO REWARD save for the normal quest drops.
 
EDIT: Usually I limit myself to two quests a day and try to RP as much as I can. Also these quest spices and regular spices keep me definately careful, ready for battle, and on my feet.

[Big Orc Man]

Seanzie - discussion and disagreement are fine, but keep it civil.

[Seanzie]

That was more of a Joke, really.

[BrittanyPanthas]

All of you should go read TheBeggar's post on hoarding consumables and the implications here: http://www.escapefromundeath.com/blog/why-characters-die-true-story

Supplies are meant to overcome the hardest challenges on EfU.  If you're holding back to hoard for the occasional PvP, then what are the DMs spicing you supposed to think?  We balance our spice, and DM quests based on the supplies you have.  If you hold back, then the only person at fault for your deaths is your own self.  And if the challenge is so slim that you don't have to use any significant supplies, then how is it a challenge at all?

Typically if you're not getting rewarded very well, then there are several possible reasons.

1.  You had a near wipe(Most likely not due to not using the aforementioned supplies or as a result of your IC choices) and the DMs had to use some Deus Ex Machina to save you.

2.  OOC attitude.  Players give us an attitude all the time about all sorts of 'negatives' to our quests:  We used to many supplies.  One of us died!  We hate your DMing style.  We hate X.   If we're getting this sort of attitude from players, then why should we feel that we ought to take the event we're doing to completion?

3.  IC circumstances:  If you kill that NPC we took the trouble to try diplomacy with you, then its not likely that you'll be rewarded in the same way.  We certainly allow for players to do what they want, but you have to realize that every action has a reaction, and consequences have to be accepted.

If I'm spicing you, its because I'm considering that maybe, just maybe, I think your PC is cool enough that I might DM for you in the future.   I save my hardest spice for the players that I respect the most, and usually reward well.

If I am given attitude because you used too many supplies in a minor 'spice' situation, then why would I want to consider running a full blown quest for you?  Food for thought.

[Seanzie]

That would be okay, if I had minor spice, and if I did not use all of my supplies or most of my supplies I would not have written this up. But I did, and the spices, were, well to say the least, on Extremely Hard Mode. And if this was a one time thing, then sure I would be over reacting, but I believe only six of the quests I've done haven't been spiced, and that is not a exaggeration.

[Kinslayer988]

1. You had a near wipe(Most likely not due to not using the aforementioned supplies).

Actually, I happened to use almost all my healing items, hastes, blurs, and so on one of the quests seanzie refers to.
 
But I try my best not to complain because I am aware of the time and effort the DMs go through to make brilliant, brutal, and/or fun spices and quests.

[TakenByVisions]

Supplies are meant to overcome the hardest challenges on EfU.  If you're holding back to hoard for the occasional PvP, then what are the DMs spicing you supposed to think?  We balance our spice, and DM quests based on the supplies you have.  If you hold back, then the only person at fault for your deaths is your own self.  And if the challenge is so slim that you don't have to use any significant supplies, then how is it a challenge at all?

Well, no. "Supplies" are simply required for every portion of EFU. Whether it's a basic scripted quest, a spiced quest, or a full blown DM event, you need to use them and typically more with each case.

  The things added by a DM may be balanced from their view, and they can of course see what kind of supplies each person has, but in general "spice" is usually an exchange of supplies for XP. Even that begins to dwindle at the higher levels, since most spice seems to be adding more of the same monsters or similar low CR things into it that don't give XP. I personally find that general supplies are not given out enough at the end of spiced quests. Someone who efficiently uses their supply and does well in the spice should probably well rewarded just as they would have been without the spice.

The rest of that statement is quite true though. Hoarding your supplies is just foolish and I see it all the time in the packs of dead people.

As for the rest, you bring up the fact that people complain about their rewards twice and make it appear overly common. If you find it to be so common then perhaps it holds some bit of truth. We're all a bunch of whiners, we know it, but people will be far less willing to use their dwindling supplies when they know/feel that they won't get them back from you.

Also, stuff like this happens in groups and one or two can ruin it for everyone. This is part of the reason I had long ago suggested the warrior lockers and their various other forms be more common than a big pile of stuff at the end. If you notice one person using their supplies well and doing things in a way you find fitting then you can easily hand them that at the end and give the slacker something more minor.

[Haromaro]

This is probably the fourth post I've tried to make in this topic, so I'm going to try to keep this as concise as possible.

I agree with Brittany in all regards, especially when it comes to people hoarding supplies. I frequently see players shout "no more healing!" and then miraculously pull a cure serious trinket out of their ass when they get dropped to badly wounded. And that's fine; people want to look out for themselves. During my stay here, I've frequently seen people rewarded for roleplaying and sensible actions on DM quests and spices. It's inspiring really, knowing that you're being watched and rewarded for bringing flavor and fun to the server. It helps me, as a player, want to do more with my lousy, cheesy fighter wielding an oversized axe.

However, I have to take Seanzie's side on this argument despite the tone of some of his posts. I'm frequently finding that I'm going through literally all of my supplies in order to simply have a chance of surviving what I've come to find is the new norm for 'minor' spice. And this is all good and fine if the rewards were anywhere near some semblance of the supplies I'm spending to just get to the end of a quest. I have fun on spice, I enjoy having DM involvement in my character's life. It's all good fun. But I feel incredibly disheartened when a quest's mobs are tripled, my supplies utterly exhausted, and the only real reward is typical quest loot and extra experience -- and that's assuming that the party leader hasn't staked a claim on the only useful trinkets and you haven't, indeed, died during the supply-exhausting spice. What makes this all even more frustrating is when I see average, Joe Blow mobs throwing back cure critical potions like they're water and seeing my character pull out sinews and tooth from their corpses and little else.

I'm fine with having to fight intelligently when a DM is around. I love the extra flare of fighting off kamakaze goblins and assassins when I just expected your standard granary run. However, there is absolutely nothing intelligent in a battle resting on the difference between a DM's endless supply of potions with the players' relatively limited supply, especially when the reward is an extra potion or two, a pat on the back, and the boredom of having to reorganize your pack.

Don't get me wrong, I love EfU. I don't think I'll ever change servers. I'm not trying to come off as unappreciative. I love the community, I love the setting, and I love the challenge that it all presents. But lately, I feel like spice has been something I've wanted to avoid rather than something I want to enjoy and embrace.

Just a bit of constructive criticism. Take it or leave it, I just felt I should share my opinion.

[Big Orc Man]

Just a few things to add -

Quest spice isn't supposed to necessarily always leave you where you started, supply-wise.  It depends on a lot of factors!

One big one is that actions have consequences.  If three of you run up to melee the goblin with a suicide vest strapped around him, things won't end well!

Similarly, if you metagame a quest's normal scripted layout and assume there is no lizardfolk assassin around that corner, your carelessness can get you rocked hard!

I have seen groups hold off 30 of enemy X, only to be wiped by 5 of enemy X at an unexpected point (but not spawned directly on them).

That means the difference is OOC expectation!  If you don't assume that quests are "normal" or "spiced", but rather "?", you'll survive a lot better.

Similarly, if you have a massive high-level group and you flee from a woodpecker with a lazy eye, you tend to forfeit rights to complain.

The setting's different areas demand, in my opinion, different amounts of difficulty.  The Crossroads shouldn't be death town, but the heart of H'bala's Withered Lands SHOULD be terrifying!



One last thing: There are often hidden rewards for spice.  Namely, "Whoa, that guy's staying in-character like a badass (whether that means bravely winning, fleeing, or what have you) and not complaining to his mother!  Sick, I'll run a quest for him."  And then, the end result is often groovy loot and stuff.

[AGOTFANBOI]

[FONT="]A few choice thoughts on Spice-[/FONT]

[FONT="]I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.[/FONT][FONT="] I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.[/FONT]

  [FONT="]The spice must flow...[/FONT]
 

• [FONT="]Who is the      little one, a pet perhaps? Will she deserve my special attentions? [/FONT]

• [FONT="]Why prolong the      inevitable? I will kill you! — I will kill him! [/FONT]

[FONT="]He who controls the spice, controls the universe![/FONT]

  [FONT="]An in the desert, words to live by “Walk without rhythm and you won't attract the worm”[/FONT]
   
A world without spice is tasteless..