Crookery, Alts, and OOC Blindness

[Egon the Monkey]

Somthing worth a mention, with crook factions starting to turn up again. It's great that so many players are using forum alt accounts. It keeps the deviousness separate from the public face of the PC, and stops both metagaming and OOC Blindness.

Metagaming is where you exploit OOC info for IC gains. OOC Blindness is where you feel bound by fair play to shoot yourself in the foot over IC knowledge because it might look like you obtained it OOCly. For example, a crook PC posts one notice saying he's selling a battleaxe legitimately, then another saying he's recruiting gangsters. If they're using an alt account, you could put two and two together from the writing style or other clues and realise it's the same person. Have a hunch, and act on it.

If you post using the same account for both, there's no OOC mystery and players don't have the chance to be genuinely surprised. This means any attempt to flush out the PC ends up mired in trying to justify every suspicion, PCs remaining uncharacteristically trusting "so as to not metagame", etc.

So, good on you, Raven and Arch Rogue.  The Muster have a chance to sleuth it up :D

[Arch Rogue]

For example, a crook PC posts one notice saying he's selling a battleaxe  legitimately, then another saying he's recruiting gangsters. If they're  using an alt account, you could put two and two together from the  writing style or other clues and realise it's the same person. Have a  hunch, and act on it.

I'm not so sure I really agree with that, personally. In like 99% of cases, a player using an alt account will be/should be undectable by his postings. Acting on a 'writing style' strikes me as a bit far-fetched, unless its immensely obvious, which again, would defeat the purpose of having the alt account in the first place so it would be -exceedingly- rare. ;)

Thanks for you encouragement from your post in general though!

EDIT: It is ironically amusing you assume Arch Rogue is an alt account, and not a main <_<

[Porkolt]

Don't play your investigation through the forums.
 
Just do it IG. Use the forum as clues, not as damning proof.

[Random_White_Guy]

Having been a victim both OOCly and ICly of writing-style-itis I've kinda given up on bothering to use accounts for crimetastic endeavors. When it does work it is a rather lovely tool but there are a lot of things that work from both sides.

Namely "Forum crime" isn't something that occurs often. People using accounts typically also do things IC with the same style and alias so you don't have to resort to "Writing styles" but merely busting the soil and investigating things ICly.

I'll say this point blank though about "OOC blindness". It's not blindness but some story telling courtesy. There is no group of people who shoot themselves more in the foot than EFU criminals. They're highly scrutinized OOCly, more often than not leave people alive more than goodly/lawful folks, and the fact that disguise systems are broken and non-existent on EFU makes their job infinitely more difficult.

[Drakill Tannan]

I kinda agree with Egon actually. Although a crook PC with bluff should be able to fake a different handwriting anyway. But leaving clues is a good idea.

When i was palying with my lighting sorc that hated the order, she sometimes used the same words when discussing with ordermen thant he ones her alter ego wrote on the notes.

Basically, it was a way of IC saying "it's me, but you can't prove it, HA!"

[Egon the Monkey]

I enjoy the mystery. For example I found out OOCly a few times who prominent crooks or rebels were, and it spoiled the fun somewhat. Caster's notes to his own PC FROM his own PC with Silver Coin were amusing, and kept me guessing.

The problem with story telling courtesy is it's hard to nail it I find. Underdo it and you end up feeling like your PC won a cheap victory or you metagamed something. Overdo it and you end up with a bizarre set of OOC blinkers on your char and the resulting RP is clumsy.  There's a reason I tried to come up with a term for overdoing story courtesy so much that it's making your PC act out of character, or railroading things. Where it's ironically interfering with the story. It's rare and less damaging than self-serving metagaming, but it grates when you see it.

It's not much fun to wonder to yourself if you're actually digging into  something IG or just justifying what you already know OOC. Whether your PC genuinely wouldn't see through a disguise or if you don't want to feel like your lame, despite your guy having high Spot. Posting with alt accounts or only using the forums to post as your PCs alias helps to keep a barrier between what people know IC and what they know from the website. It means there's not the spoiler of a big OOC hint on the left and you can concentrate on solving the riddle, not policing yourself. It's not necessary, but it is a cool bit of effort. Keeps others from metagaming, keeps people from feeling they might be, allows suspense.

[Random_White_Guy]

"Caster's notes to his own PC FROM his own PC with Silver Coin were amusing, and kept me guessing."

But see. That's just it. OOC realization that other people read your forum letters inspires people to send private IC correspondence to themselves to cover their tracks so there's less pursuit ICly.

The job of a PC criminal isn't to play Forum Mystery Title Tag. It's not to encourage or discourage people to OOC sleuth your account or take extravagant measures to hide it. PC crime is about stirring the pot, giving Lawfolk the run around, and pushing things ICly. Proactive plots and schemes to add layers to EFU that are typically lacking. Putting yourself out there to add excitement beyond DM plots and "Hey lets run the granary for the 10,000th time".

9/10 times PC criminals lose, but we do it for the love of the life. I'm not saying you need to ignore blatant IC information and legitimate flags. I'm saying it needs to be taken wit ha grain of salt and people should use discretion on when to be stumped and when to mount up and form a lynch mob.

Sending letters to yourself doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the mystery or intrigue, it doesn't add the the schemes or the plots.

[Random_White_Guy]

Caster's notes to his own PC FROM his own PC with Silver Coin were amusing, and kept me guessing.

That's a matter of style and flavor. There's enough difficulty in playing a proactive criminal PC without having to make up fake forum letters to throw people off the trail in correspondence that is suppose to be private and isn't known to anyone ICly.

If you want "OOC Blindness" let's speak of Neerix, or the 10,000 other "Wanted" Criminals in EFU:A who didn't slit the throat of every witness present to a mugging because that'd be offensive and ruin the fun of a ton of people. Let's talk about people who put time and effort into crafting disguises only to have someone say "Nope, those aren't supported" and their identity spread casually by people.

I know I'm harping but it's the nature of the beast. Crime and EFU has always been difficult but amazingly fun and hamstringing further with "HEY NOW YOU GOTTA KEEP IT A MYSTERY OOCLY WHO THE MASTERMINDS ARE" is... well, frankly unrealistic expectations. There's a lot of things Criminals don't do that they should do to survive to make the game more fun and enjoyable so people don't get upset that they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

"Oh man that forum post looks alike but I'm going to ignore that" isn't much to ask of non-criminal PCs to deal with.

"Sleuthing it up" should be done ICly, Make moves. Place bounties. Make overtures. Send out investigators. Interrogate criminals "Catch and release" style. Set traps. Rig situations. Cops and Robbers is fun. Crime vs. Law on EFU is fun.

[Egon the Monkey]

Yeah, I know, it's a hard balance though. For every PC that says LOL DISGUISE NOT SUPPORTED (which strung up one of my crooks before they'd really got going), there's a PC that pulls off a crap disguise in full view of all his former allies. etc.

I'm not saying what 'should' be done, I'm giving credit for the effort some players put in to keep us from stumbling over metagamey stuff. It's not necessary, and it's hard to remember to swap accounts etc, but it's appreciated.

[Random_White_Guy]

Keep adding/deleting posts because I keep coming off as harping or bitching, Which I am not trying to in any case! but basically I think I've got it worked out now:

Alts on the forums can be fun. There's a sort of fun that comes with creating that mystery. When it's done right as Raven and Arch have it's a damn beautiful thing to behold. The problem is though it becomes expected, or a tiring facade to uphold, and "Hand Writing Analysis" is a stupid gotcha move in 99% of most cases.

The real fun of playing a criminal PC is in the planning. The [tface=callig]scheming[/tface]. Building networks. The collecting up like minded people for grandiose plans that may well end up blowing up in the face and failing. The real fun of playing a Law PC is in the [tface=fell]pursuit[/tface]. The chase. Kicking over stones and catch-and-release and trying to find who ever is behind it all at every turn.

The way I see it is this in regards to "OOC Blindness" that it isn't blindness at all. It is "OOC courtesy" in a balance that shows up a lot with criminal and evil schemes. Law tends to give some wiggle room in the planning. Ignoring the little things. Letting little fish go to get the big ones. Busting up schemes but not executing every law breaker ever. OOC Courtesy. Crime tends to give wiggle room in the pursuit stage. Not everyone who is beaten for trying to bring in a criminal is ruined. Not everyone is full looted. Not everyone has their throat slit. OOC courtesy.

The courtesy is letting things -build-. Having small skirmishes and and conflicts slowly building up to that one big event that sets off a week long melee of bloodshed, street war, and gruesome awesome. When paths cross at the right time, the story is glorious, and the sweet magical dance of cops and robbers occurs.

[Wafflecone]

Part of the problem perhaps lay in the "play to WIN" PVP attitude that makes people feel they have to crush other peoples hopes dreams stories and PC's in order to make their own shine to the DM's?

[Caster13]

Caster's notes to his own PC FROM his own PC with Silver Coin were amusing, and kept me guessing.

<3