is quarterstaff really a double weapon now?

[Egon the Monkey]

True, if you use the "acorn" staff head, it removes 95% of the sparkles, and it doesn't look bad on and of the shafts.

[chezcaliente]

Yes I would agree - seems that it would make more sense to have several of the "magical staff" type weapons that are not double-weapons; and/or give Ambidexterity as a free feat on all basic double-weapon staves to represent their simplicity of use.

Improved two-weapon fighting should really remain as a feat that represents some training in the fighting style IMO.

[Howlando]

Quarterstaves with bonus feats are everywhere.

But really... not every base weapon has to be mechanically equivalent to other weapons. If you don't want to use a quarterstaff as a double weapon, then just use a club.

[Egon the Monkey]

But really... not every base weapon has to be mechanically equivalent to other weapons.

I agree. The quarterstaff has always been a subobtimal weapon, but an enduringly popular one nonetheless because it's particularly flavourful for a lot of concepts. A club really doesn't have the same look to it unless you're a small PC, and a staff means you're now having to optimise your entire build around being able to hit a barn door with it :(. As for bonus feat staves, I've only ever seen two, both class restricted, and one only has Two Weapon Fighting. I've seen none in shops, so getting one is purely luck, too. A dedicated staff PC's still restricted now to Light Armor Ranger or 15 Dex and 2 feats.

It wouldn't hurt to add the feats onto a cheap shoploot one. Merchant with a massive discount to wares, but only sells different skins of bonus feat staff. Then a PC really focused around dual wield can use it and get Improved 2-weapon Fighting, use +damage staff drops etc, but a PC wanting to use a staff because it's characterful isn't locked out of a Simple weapon for ages due to of lack of feats. This goes double for those PCs that are created as staff users without the player realising a Staff is a dual weapon, and then wonder why their AB sucks so much.

[Portal Rat]

In the toolset there are both "Magical Staff" and Quarter Staff. The magical version is typically sparkly and given out as DM loot, yet can easily be designed to not be anything like that and replace most of these quarter staves that are in game representing some low magic staff.

It can easily be left as is if the DMs decided to use the magical staff template for all of those wizard focused staves we find in game now rather than quarter staff.

This seems like the best solution, as it has something for everyone.

Also, there is one class you all seem to be forgetting about: monks. The quarterstaff is the only two-handed weapon available to the monk. Additionally, a monk with a quarterstaff and Improved Disarm is a force to be reckoned with, and that build is utterly impossible with the change to staves.

[Haromaro]

Being someone who plays a Ranger who is so feral that it would go against the concept to use anything but a staff as a two-handed weapon, I don't particularly mind the flavor changes to quarterstaves. However, I think the big issue here is that we're talking about a simple weapon that should be able to be readily used by almost any character. d6/d3 damage is not in itself very sound mechanically, particularly for a class that doesn't receive a full BAB, so it's not as if making TWF/Ambi more accessible is going to break the server so long as you ensure that staves with the bonus feats don't have much in the line of other boosts. Even just putting a staff with the two feats on it in the starter's area would be a welcome adjustment.

[TheImpossibleDream]

In your wall of text under "As far as barbarians" you forget theres a perk for +1d4 damage on rage which effects dual wielding, dual wielding barbarians are by far the most powerful.

[9lives]

Monks don't get their attack bonus with quarterstaffs, do they?

(PS. There are monk staves around with the feats)

PPS Let this thread die.

[Relinquish]

The problem with making magical staves the new "skin" for quarterstaves being that you cannot weapon focus/specialize in them

[Semli]

There are quite a few staves out there that do drop on QAs with the bonus feats on them for concepts that demand such. If you want to carry one for flavor then by all means do so, just pull out a club until you find one with the feats on it. They are out there.

If delays aren't your thing, you have the option of actually taking the feats (probably going to free you up to use one with better stats as opposed to bonus feats) or taking a level in ranger if you're sticking to light or no armor.

Personally I prefer the way quarterstaves are now.

[Wrexsoul]

The problem with making magical staves the new "skin" for quarterstaves being that you cannot weapon focus/specialize in them

If you specialize in fighting with a staff, you sure won't be wielding it like some kind of over-sized club. Having it as a dual-weapon is a much fairer representation.