[Spell] Heart Clutch

[Semli]

Interesting spell flavor wise, but doesn't really compare to Ghoul's Touch (lower level, longer duration) or Hold Person (same level, will save so better results). Both of those spells leave your subsequent actions free. Even with GSF this thing rarely lasts more than a round. The damage is so little its pretty much negligible.

I'd recommend increasing the save DC so people actually fail a few rounds, or upping the damage each round so those failed saves actually amount to something.

[Luke Danger]

Good flavor spell for executing that hapless red shirt who fails though...

Damn, now I want to play a Banite...

[Nuclear Catastrophe]

Naw.  Great spell.  Not every spell has to be PERFECTLY BALANCED you know.  It allows people to have -signature spells-.

[meow-mix]

I don't necessarily think it should do more damage, but I would think it would be much more excellent if it did 1 or 1d2 str/con damage per round, for a duration of round/level or something.  That way, it COULD (theoretically) be awesome or completely useless.  Plus, then you could Darth Vader choke people...

[Jaws That Thirst]

^ Agreed.

[Rincewind1]

It's main use is of course to do this, tbh



"I find your lack of faith in Bane....disturbing"

[xXCrystal_Rose]

HEART CLUTCH!!! My favorite spell. Sure, it might not be good for damage or for stunning, but it is good for FUN! <3 this spell, with or without any boost to it. Random lore fact, in d&d the spell is actually called Clutch of Orcus, which is part of why it has [evil] in the spell descriptor. Upon killing a person their smoking heart appears in your hand, which can then be used for any manner of things!

[Drakill Tannan]

Or you could give it a min duration before the saves kicked in. Say, 1 round per 2 levels and after that they start taking a saving throw to be released?

[Relinquish]

It's a fort save, that does both paralyze and damage. A whole minute before a save would be ridiculous. Use it with teammates?

[Egon the Monkey]

It's a fort save, but I believe it is blocked by PFX as it is mistakenly labelled as a mind spell. I may be wrong, haven't used or seen it used in ages. If that and Ghoul Touch are now fixed not to do that any more they are both good spells, and this has a use. Paralysing people who are warded, without having to get into melee range.

[Nightshadow]

It's not blocked by Protection spells, but Protection from Evil and stuff does grant a +2 on saves vs the spell. It's a good spell, a little buggy in the past, and may still be so, where it ends prematurely even if the caster hasn't moved.

[Divine Intervention]

The main issue isn't how much damage etc it does.  The main problem is that if you are trying to heart clutch anything other than a 6 CON elf wizard, most of the time you get maybe one round of stun.  It's a cool spell but because of the constant rolling of fort saves it's very easy to beat.  Maybe a change to a save every two rounds or something.

[derfo]

I think a spell that does something as insane as 'ripping out someone's smoking heart and magically making it appear in your hand' should exactly be easy.  Not to mention it paralyzes and damages too.

The fact that takes some effort to make work successfully though is reasonably accessible for people to keep trying is cool too.

[Egon the Monkey]

The real trouble with it as DI states is the repeated rolls. Generally with a disabling spell, it's pass or fail. Either you succeed and something is royally screwed for a while (Stun. Paralysis, Confusion, Blind) or you fail and nothing happens. Here you have more chances to fail than succeed.

I decided to run the numbers for casting on a guy with 4 fort vs spells, D_I's 6 CON wizard. You have DC20 Clutch on your 16 Int Necromancer with GSF.

Round 1: He'll save on a 16-20. There's a 75% chance you get him. On average he suffers 2 dmg.
Round 2: There's a 75% chance the spell continues. The chance of a 2 round stun is 75%*75% =56%
Round 3: 42% chance to get this far
Round 4: 31% chance to get this far
Round 5: 23 % chance to stun for the full duration and do 5-15 dmg, about the same range as a magic missile.

Hold Person on the other hand has a 75% chance of stunning a PC with 4 Will vs that for 5 rounds, during which you could do more than that 10 damage by zapping them with Acid Splash or hitting them, flee from the target, or go invisible to stop those archer mobs shooting you.

Now, what I think would be a flavourful way of dealing with this is to add some sort of necromancy-themed penalty on top of the paralysis, to make it harder to make those repeated saves. Flavourful it might be, but it does leave you rather stuck compared to a Ghoul Touch, which you can RP similarly and lasts a similar duration. If a victim of Heart Clutch was affected with Fear too each round he fails, that'd reduce his saves by 2, and be characterful. Same for a temporary CON drain while the spell is in effect, like a weaker Infestation of Maggots. It would make it a whole lot more possible to kill something with Clutch, as well as countering the multiple saves as the victim gets progressively weaker each round.

[Jayde Moon]

I would agree that lowering the Fort each round both adds flavor and helps the spirit of the spell.  Replace Con with Lesser Restoration.

Even after the spell is done, you should still be weakened, I mean, someone was crushing your heart!