Familiars

[Aldrick Tanith]

Occasionally a Wizard summons his or her familiar and sends it off somewhere.  They emote with it or if it can talk they have it speak.  

Some of the responses are sometimes odd.  Some people ignore it, while other people interact with it.  Yet, there are some people who out and out blatantly state, "It's a wizard's familiar.  Some wizard is playing a joke."

How would this be known?  If my (to use an example) mephit is communicating with you, why would you assume it is a familiar?  What would give it away to you?  Why would you not just assume it is a simple mephit communicating as it obviously appears to be?

In my opinion this is metagaming.  If that mephit is talking to you and the wizard is nowhere to be seen, then there is no reason for you to know it is a familiar.  This includes all other familiars.  

It is just a minor pet peeve and a request to please not do it.  I dislike it when people change their characters actions and responses to the presence of a familiar.

This is not directed at a particular recent event or individual.  I've seen it done frequently in the past, and as my PC is a wizard who is starting to make heavy use of his familiar I am posting this preemptively.

[Aldrick Tanith]

P.S.  I don't think it matters if you're a wizard with the same type of familiar.  Just because you have a mephit (or whatever) as a familiar doesn't mean that what you're interacting with is also a familiar.

I've seen that done as well.  There is no reason at all to make such a leap of logic.

[Nightshadow]

Yes, metagamers can be quite a pain, many do it unintentionally, though.

I think that no one should have their characters assume that something is a familiar, and I think that from now on I will be putting my familiar's name as "Bat" or "Imp" or something like that, to reduce this metagaming, and that is exactly what it is, in most cases. You have to put yourself in the shoes of your character, as you must always do in RP, why should you be able to identify this panther as different from all the other panthers on the island as someone's animal companion, why should you be able to tell that this particular raven is someone's familiar?

The only possible reason that I can think of is that you're a werewolf and hence have a very keen sense of smell and know that this creature is the same creature that Fred the Wizard introduced to you as his familiar, you have an animal companion who is acting strange around it, hinting that the creature is not ordinary, or you are a level 5+ druid/polymorphed wizard/sorcerer who is now in a form that has a very keen sense of smell, such as worgs and wolves.

But if a seagull flies by you, why should you know immediatelly that it belongs to Fred the Wizard, and not think it is just another seagull?

RP is all about placing yourself in the shoes of your character, and ignoring all the stats and the names above people's heads, and focusing on what your character knows and sees, not what you know and see.

[Letsplayforfun]

Actually, there's really few different options on this case:

-either the familiar is a monster, but is close to his master, so deduction is easy

- either it's a monster far from it's master, and should probably be attacked on sight.
If it isn't, it's because no dm is around in npcs areas, or because PCs choose to ignore the small beast (that's usually the metagamed part)
In that case, i believe monster familiars away from their masters should set themselves on hostile.

- either its some kind usual beast (seagull, raven) so it's ignored.

There's very little metagaming either way, imo.

I rather have a problem with wizards summoning monster familiars in town, really.

[Aldrick Tanith]

I know that many people do it unintentionally.  That's why I thought making this post would be helpful.

However, I want to be more clear.  I'll take an imp as an example this time.

You have three imps.  The first is an un-possessed non-hostile NPC.  The second is a possessed non-hostile NPC controlled by a DM.  And the last imp is a possessed non-hostile NPC controlled by a PC.

In the case of each of these imps all three are most likely treated very differently.  This is because OOCly you can tell the difference between them.  Yet, there is no way for a PC to differentiate between the three Imps.  They're all just Imps.

All I'm asking for is consistency.  There is no rational way to tell a familiar apart from a standard NPC or a DM possessed NPC, unless you see the wizard summoning it or it is following the Wizard around.

[RIPnogarD]

I rather have a problem with wizards summoning monster familiars in town, really.

Ditto this sentiment…
I think like all monsters they should be attacked (not like the comon birds and such, the monster types). If attacking isn’t an option based on non-PvP area then it’s the possessed familiar's owner that is meta-gaming the fact they know we can’t kill it without getting DM’s involved.

[Calculor]

[Joe Desu]

Yes, a healthy reminder not to metagame is due.
Albeit I would think that different types of familiars would cause different actions by different PCs.  Therefore I think a more complex response is warranted perhaps.
 
Seagulls exhibiting standard behavior would either be ignored or killed (having come across plenty of feathers in the forest I know there is a high chance of this!).  Seagulls, that act abnormally, say following a group around, helping attack a foe, would be considered more highly intelligent and therefore a PC may think it is possibly a familiar or shapechanger.  A seagull in deep a cave may appear odd, while a bat may not.  Locational clues are problematic though as Seagulls do not commonly appear at the Ziggurat, while most likely there would be plenty of reason to do so as they would hunt for scraps of food for example.  Also Seagulls are natural to this world unlike outsiders who would have been brought here most likely by magic (no?).

An imp is a minor non-Baatezu devil. They are weak devils and are typically Wizards' familiars.

For good aligned PC's, all imps would be killed on sight I would think; hence the comment above to set all to hostile would seem appropriate.  If you have no problem killing a bunch of outsiders in the Observatory, why not some solitary imp?  Other aligned folk may either kill it or try to dominate it.  Unless the area is known to have benign evil imps wandering about, they are out of place and therefore suspect.  
 
If all Lower's problems could be blamed upon the Evil Wizards of Upper, what is stopping the average PC to think some evil mage sent an evil little imp for a chat to cause havoc?  "It's a wizard's familiar. best watch what you say."  What is the commonality of imps wandering about without being brought here by wizards?  What is the percentage of imps that are not familiars?  I do not know, but the question is would the majority, or minority even, of Faerun know?  And if they are typically Wizard's familiars, what is atypical?
 
But in the end;
I agree that PC's should not metagame familiars,
Those sending out familiars should consider that odd behavior may very well cause suspicion of said familiar.
Oh bother, I have more questions than answers.

[Sternhund]

Let's keep this simple.

This isn't something that needs a grandiose argument. Just use common sense, and if someone is being obnoxious about it, report them to us.

[Aldrick Tanith]

I agree with Sternhund.  There is no need to make this more difficult than it really is - it's all common sense.  Just do what your character would normally do when confronted with a situation like that.  If you see a solitary Imp wandering about ignore that it's a familiar or a DM possessed NPC.  Do what your PC would normally do.  If your PC would attack and kill such a thing - do it.  If your PC would try and converse with such a creature - do it.

It's really that simple.

Although, I would point out:  We are limited by the types of familiars we can choose by NWN.  However, lore wise as far as I am aware there really aren't that many limitations on what can become a familiar.  Cats, dogs, ferrets, snakes, bats, rats – all possibilities.  It also goes up to more intelligent creatures such as imps, mephits, intellect devourers, minor beholderkin (eyeballs) and in EfU: A also floating talking skulls.

I should also point out that even though NWN forces a Wizard to pick a familiar it should not be assumed that all wizards have one.

[Talir]

I don't see the big problem here but will say my piece anyway. Part of the reason why everyone wouldn't charge and attack any familiars or animal companions is due to the server rules. You need a DM to oversee PvP. In addition, attacking a familiar can cause NPCs to suddenly turn on you. Therefore, it is often easier to either ignore it or converse with it, at the character's preference. As an advice, don't predict what the other players will do when confronting such an event. The character may have experienced something similar or have knowledge that you aren't aware of, and the reaction can mislead one to believe that the player is metagaming the fact that it is a familiar. Ease up and take it as it comes. Let others control and decide how their character reacts; concentrate on having fun and creating interesting events.

[Joe Desu]

I am confused.
You first state that if a PC says a familiar is a familiar that is metagaming, but you say just RP it as a PC would.  So if a PC assumes all are familiars they would be right, and you would think they are metagaming.  Still no solution.

[Aldrick Tanith]

>_>

This is a bit silly, and overly complicated for something that IMO is rather simple.

If you see a snake (one of the possible familiars) slithering around in the forest while playing a fighter.  Then suddenly shout, "Hey there is a Wizard's Familiar."  Because it emoted "[Hisses as you approach.]" and you clicked on the name to notice that it lets you send a tell to a PC... and you know that PC is playing a wizard...

Now, sure if you're PC assumes that every imp, snake, rat, and the like that he approaches is a wizard's familiar - then it is perfectly justifiable ICly.  Yet, in 99.99999% of all instances there are no character's who think like that and are still considered remotely mentally stable.

Of course, anyone who uses a familiar should follow the server rules and shouldn't lame out by openly having their floating skull / imp / eyeball / whatever following them around on the Ziggurat without notifying a DM.  I'd say such instances are generally equal to someone playing a monster race due to the PvP rules.

But those are not the instances I am referring to in this thread.  I am specifically talking about situations where a familiar is roaming around with no wizard in site, outside of a populated area.

[Jayde Moon]

I think people get what you're trying to say.  I get what you're trying to say.  And certainly, you are right... I wish no one would ever cheese something out and metagaming would be kept to the minimum required to keep things flowing smoothly.

But I also think your energy would be better spent just enjoying the game and letting such things as this slide beneath your annoyance radar.

For all the time you can spend pulling your hair out over what you presume is my metagaming, I can spend a lot of time trying to justify why it ISN'T metagaming.  (I know you aren't pulling your hair out for real, exxageration for dramatic effect!)

What if Wizard Jim's Snake is a brilliantly colored, diamond patterned snake and the rest of the Jungle Island Snakes are just straight up black?  Perhaps I can assume so unless told otherwise.

Then my reason for knowing its a familiar is that it's visually recognizable as Jim's snake.

Fred has a black Chicken.  I have yet to see any non-familiar chickens on the island.

Whoa, that rat sure is acting different then any other rat!  It must not be an ordinary rat!  Either diseased, or considering the amount of wizards that I KNOW have rat familiars, maybe it's one of those!  Or Jim has a brown rat and island rats are grey (or more to the point, dire, because I haven't seen any non-familiar non-dire rats in the wilds yet).

That seagull, parrot, cockatoo sure is friendly.  Maybe he belongs to someone.  Could be a wizard!

Without a DM there to explicitly make a ruling, it's like rolling social skills.  You can't get mad at me if I choose to ignore your uber bluff roll.  Well, you can, but don't be surprised if I don't care.

So your choice is to jump up and down about how annoyed you get and wish people would change, or simply choose not to be annoyed and roll with it.  You cannot choose to force me to submit to your will on such issues.  It is not an option.

For me, I think I would pursue the "not be annoyed" option.  It seems the easiest route for me.

In summary, I agree with you, but you're frittering away time and energy pursuing this.

[monet]

People shouldn't assume it's a familiar, I totally agree, and should react appropriately.  If it's a small animal of course that might just mean ignore it.

But (and I think this is a lesson I learned the hard way by annoying people) when it comes to expecting people to interact with your familiars a little goes a long way...  It's good occasionally but the novelty can get old especially when there's no purpose to it (meaning the only reason you're doing it is just trying to get them to react to the creature) or when the familiar is interrupting something else a group has in progress.  

Again I learned this by doing it myself.  And when I read "Oh, It's just a wizard's familiar" I kind of recognized that as possibly a situation where they had something going on and didn't want to drop it because a mephit was trying to annoy them.  (If it's delivering a message or some other real purpose that's totally different of course)