Int. vs. Wis.

[GoldenArrow]

Wisdom vs. Intelligence

Alright folks, I know there's a lot of discussion gone on over this already, and the topic of roleplaying statistics true to their numbers has been beat to death like no other horse in history.  This time I would like to put a twist on it, and focus purely on Intelligence and Wisdom.  As you all know, politics can be tricky business in the Archipelago.  If people play their characters true to their stats, even 'henchmen' whose only purpose is bashing faces for bloodsport benefit from a few points spent in this direction.   They are the 'role play' stats; Charisma, Wisdom, and Intelligence.  They shape people's personalities rather boldly.

So, I want to start a discussion on Intelligence vs. Wisdom, with the secondary theme of politics - a sort of interruption of the regularly broadcast program.

Intelligence and wisdom; which is better for a political character, and why?

[Luke Danger]

Intelligence: Basically, actual smarts in academics. You know things, you're bright. But it doesn't mean you know how to use it, it just means you're brilliant.

Wisdom: Logic, reasoning, understanding. You may not be the sharpest spear, but you're able to deduce reason and can have a deeper insight. It doesn't mean your smart in the academic sense, but you interpert better.

Both are needed, IMO. But I think it depends on the character in question a lot.

[chezcaliente]

Yeah I think either can make a successful politician.

Intelligence is more cunning, using knowledge as power and quick-witted. More likely to speak or make snap-decisions based on their knowledge before they think something through. An intelligent leader is likely to be powerful but not necessarily liked (which might vary on Charisma) in my opinion.

Wisdom is more insightful, empathetic, perceptive and understanding. More likely to think and to plan, and gather knowledge from others, before they speak or decide. A wise leader is likely to be great, but will rise slowly and steadily to power in my opinion.

Obviously this is all open to interpretation, but there's my take on it!

[xXCrystal_Rose]

With a better wisdom you might be able to better understand the needs of the people. Also to sense the motives of those around you, discern truth and hold a better judgement. Intelligence would help with the legalities portion, coordination and management.

[Haromaro]

Intelligence represents numbers and values and books and literature, while wisdom represents the bigger picture behind all of those things and sees a deeper meaning than what is simply there.

[Spiffy Has]

Both are required. If you aren't willing to make the mechanical investment, well, be ready to fail the rolls.

[Kinslayer988]

Wisdom: Common sense
Low Wisdom: An idiot
 
Intelligence: Academics, math, smarts
Low Intelligence: Dum Dum

[TheImpossibleDream]

Not having one will destroy you despite having the other when it comes to politics.

[Nightshadow]

Charisma (despite it not being asked about) is also very important to have in politics. 12 or higher on all 3 will leave you with a good political character, in my opinion. Of course, you still have to work at it, but I imagine DM's would pay more attention to you than one without.

[Wafflecone]

Wisdom represents your perception, intuition, and ability to gauge situations, as well as common sense. Intelligence is your ability to analyze, memorize, and process information. Charisma is your comleyness, force of will, personality, confidence, and ability to inspire others as well as gauge social situations.

[Sternhund]

I've always thought as intelligence as being booksmart and wisdom as knowledge gained through experience. Thus, a superior politician would have superior wisdom, since having a deeper knowledge set based on experience of your constituents and of your opponents will get you farther than being sharp on physics.

[The Beggar]

Neither is better per se.

Int can help by allowing a character to memorize and amass and synthesize complex amounts of information.

Wisdom as the ability to be insightful and simplify complex problems into an easily understandable and applicable concept, can also be important.

I think both are tools a character can use to establish themselves politically, neither more useful than the other.

[Egon the Monkey]

As Beggar says, you can apply either to politics. Int would be more your cunning plans and thinking 5 steps ahead politician, Wis would be the sort to read a room and play to the audience, or really gauge public opinion rather than relying on lots of reports. Wis is a strange stat anyway, being a catch-all for street cunning, empathy, sharp eyes and bloody-minded faith.

Just remember that 10 is "average" not "low". 10 Int 14 Wis could easily portray a shrewd if not exceptionally bright trader who then goes into politics, working off what he feels is a good plan. 14 int 10 Wis would be somone focused on learning political history, economics etc. but who doesn't have that same life experience. Make your PC and choose a means that plays to their strengths. For example, nobody will expect you to have more INT than WIS on a Cleric, or a Fighter with more mental than physical attributes, just to tick a box marked "politician".

[Nuclear Catastrophe]

This thread is without a doubt flaggelating a long deceased equine, but I will suggest the following.

Leaders don't ~need~ intelligence OR wisdom.  It's nice to have in them, and beneficial to the world as a whole of course, but true leaders have people skills, and a force of personality.  Or Charisma, to put it bluntly.
 
I won't delve into the real life personae that lack for intelligence or wisdom, but look for yourself at famous leaders of the past and you'll see what I mean.

[SkillFocuspwn]

I don't think intelligence is anything about book smarts; that's Lore. I think intelligence is about thinking about the moment while wisdom is thinking about the bigger picture.

An intelligent person would be able to respond better, think quicker and come up with solutions much quicker but without wisdom they wouldn't be able to see how their actions fitted into the greater scheme of things. Meanwhile, someone wise would be able to see the bigger picture; they'd be able to understand the complexities and the consequences of their actions.

So, obviously, the best politician would have all three. It really depends on what kind of politician you need though; a charismatic figurehead, an intelligent fixer, or a wise forward thinker!