Time Based Trait System

[Mad Wizard]

Obviously, I dont really know what I am talking about, so I beg for your forgiveness in advance...
All arguments in this tread seem sound and valid. I can only add my feelings, gained after a week of lurking this ere forum.
-practical level-cap around 10/permadeath -> tough, needs get used to
-very practical approach to ethics in the starting city and beyond -> consider camping
-wilderness fatal for newcomers -> errrgh, arrange with the locals
-> While this is a morbidly fascinating setting for a newcomer, a veteran who has solved most scripted quests and has lost established PCs, might get fatalistic and just try to stir things up. This sure can be fun the first time or so but would make a week plot if unchecked or possibly a grumpy DM if checked too often.
-> A real newcomer possibly faces strong forces urging him to join a group without even knowing about their morals, ethics or true intentions. This can be strong drama but also could be alienating.

=> I can imagine a neutral Weaponmaster growing old in peace because he is willing to teach all houses, effectively strengthening the city.
=> But I also see new deportees treated particularly nice, to enhance the chance of willing cooperation.

Trying to integrate all this, I only come up with a reputation-like feat. Hierarchical and branching. For example:
                                               ...............................................Rookie
                                                    ...................................................|
Hermit....--.....Explorer       ....--....          Neutral....--....       Apprentice....--....Activist
                        ...........................|.......................|..................... |
                       ......................Hunter..............Mediator..........Politician

Sorry for the WoT :confused:

[LiAlH4]

I am very much enthused by the idea of a very minor bonus provided in some area for surviving for a good deal of time. I especially like the idea of NPCs reacting a bit differently to the old-timers, given the PC mortality rate on the server, they are something of a novelty.

I wouldn't personally approve of any major bonuses for simple time spent on the island, but minor RP traits are cool beans. :)

[TheMacPanther]

I am for this, specifically because of the third criteria of DM wanding. From how I read it if you just are a TN fighter who sits back and has a smoke while all the shit hits the fan just for a few extra bonuses later on I seriously doubt that any DM would give you the ok under the idea "that the character is not entirely unknown and has been an active character".

That being said I am against these bonuses being directly combat useful in favor of either save bonuses or rp bonuses. Something that makes things flavourful and interesting without tipping the scales that much in one sides favor or another.

[Bearic]

I think it could be cool, minor stuff to make sense of awareness, but the important figures/urban legends stuff that RWG said would be really neat too; how ever, that probably should be harder to get than a mechnical bonus. =]

[TheImpossibleDream]

Another option, I think, would be a -1 LA for those who have been consistently around and entertaining for a substantial period!

Horrible idea.

[Joe Desu]

"Known About Town" - access to special NPC dialogue, rumors, improved resting prices

This is one kind of thing I think is important with long time PC's. The acknowledgement from NPCs that you exist and belong. That would be awesome.

i.e.
When you walk into the Wastrel and the bouncer welcomes you thereby letting others know you belong there. It sets the tone and does not cause any technical advantages.
Talk to Cyrus Doors and he asks, "How ya bin?"

That would be cool.

[Wafflecone_Hiatus]

I really like this idea, it doesn't even have to be mechanical. It could be as simple as DM's keeping a list of these PC's for reference, though we wouldn't want it to lead to favoritism.

[Aethereal]

I agree with the overall sentiment that there should be bonuses to a long career in the Archipelago. However, I believe such things should be earned by characters - not necessarily made as "achievements," that can be unlocked but rather on an individual basis.

Essentially, I am agreeing with the concept but disagreeing with the implementation of an in game mechanical "achievement," system. It would be greatly preferred as a highly customised experience for each character as earned throughout their career.

[VanillaPudding]

Here is just a little idea that came to me, that may address a sometimes annoying tendency for PCs to just "flash in the pan" and not really be long term PCs. Old, continuously played PCs do tend to accumulate significant rewards over time... but for whatever reason, many players have PCs that have a lifetime of just a week or two.

The reason is that most PCs who are actually rewarded with something besides a bag of random and unfitting potions are the ones who make the biggest and most proactive moves. EFU has been this way since I started here, and even then it's rather hit or miss on whether you're lucky enough to have a DM interested in your character progression over their own agenda and plots, and even further based upon whether you fit in with what they are "running" at the time.

I don't think this system does anything bad nor good to be honest, and it won't change anything that is already in place. I think a long term character who does things of worth will already see plenty of rewards, just like many short term or "flash in the pan" characters do.

[Egon the Monkey]

The advantage to a system like this is it would be fairly hands-off for the DMs, and let long-term PCs develop in a way the player thinks suits the PC, rather than needing DMs to come up with 'rewards', which as you say can be hit-and-miss. All the DM team would need to do is have one DM wand the PC as "Not just a silent powerquester".

If the bonuses were tailored to defensive abilities, political/social effects and lore/exploration  bonuses, I think this would definitely help characters intent on  finding out the mysteries of the server and being willing to explore  tough areas like the UD. It's quite hard to do that when PCs burn out  fast.

VP, you've actually put forward excellent points for adding a system like this.  The whole thing of rewarding the most loudly proactive does tend to lead to "Too many Chiefs, not enough Indians" with lots of PCs all starting similar groups or plots in the hope of DM favour. A semi-automated system wouldn't rely on jumping on the back of a plot or big attention-grabbing moves. It would let you balance high-risk, high-reward goals with being more careful and earning a 'veteran PC' perk that would help you move your plot in some way or give a better chance of surviving your risky idea. It would mean that even if your PC fails in his Big Ideas, he gains something from his experience.

Progression like this would be a novel bonus independent of levels, so you wouldn't lose it frustratingly to a fugueing or be able to get it by smashing quests. It would make a L7 "Old hand of the Archipelago" better at surviving hazards than a week-old L7 crushbot.

[Wafflecone_Hiatus]

I would definatly love to see perks more designed for survival, influence, and lore then crushbotting.

[you axed for it]

Prom Figures/Urban Legends just needs to be updated more regularly. :(

[chezcaliente]

...
If the bonuses were tailored to defensive abilities, political/social effects and lore/exploration  bonuses, I think this would definitely help characters intent on  finding out the mysteries of the server and being willing to explore  tough areas like the UD. It's quite hard to do that when PCs burn out  fast.
...
Progression like this would be a novel bonus independent of levels, so you wouldn't lose it frustratingly to a fugueing or be able to get it by smashing quests. It would make a L7 "Old hand of the Archipelago" better at surviving hazards than a week-old L7 crushbot.

I'm in favour for the reasons quoted above. I do think giving people a reason to stick with a character, even if it is just the minor RP-satisfaction of your local inn-keep saying your name in conversation, is a nice idea.

The focus should be on lore, exploration, social and political effects as a few people have stated. It's these things that are harder to quantify mechanically and are often the focus of a longer term not-quite-as-conflict oriented PC. It also allows more casual gamers to feel like they belong to the EfU:A community, without having the time to drive massive plots or reach high levels.

I for one have never reached level 8 on any PC in either EfU or EfU:A. Part of it is lack of play time, part is timezone, part is being oocly not great at combat, part because I often find in-character motivation for questing difficult. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but just goes to show that its not "easy" for everyone to reach these heights and feeling part of the team ooc-ly in other ways is really nice.

[tropic]

I have a bad habit of perma'ing some of my favorite characters within a week or two, and the suggestion that appeals to me the most so far is a reduced death penalty for older characters. It seems to me that, with this in place, "legacy" characters would be far less likely to perma on mundane deaths. Of course, having a PC last that long is still a challenge for me...
 
That said, having RP and mechanical perks for older characters also sounds awesome!

[GoldenArrow]

It seems to me that this is a healthy discussion, so here I am to add my ten cents.

I am greatly in favor of the 'RP Perks' mentioned here; I am doubly in favor of seeing NPC reactions to long-term PC's attempted, in the form of additional dialogue options, or as Chez just put it, 'the bartender talking about you'.  I don't know how difficult this would be to update on the mechanical end, but if it could be implimented it would give a sense of the setting reacting to the characters as opposed to the characters simply reacting to the setting.

It reminds me of a writeup I once saw somewhere that was suggesting the more powerful a character gets, the more widely renowned they are, the more powerful NPC's tend to see them as potential allies or threats.  It's perfectly feasible in my mind that a well-known thug in the docks would receive positive reactions and special favor from the shops and tavern in the area, but would be viewed with fear or suspicion in the Dominion.  Or for a well-known patrician to be sought or offered an alliance by another NPC patrician or patroned by a lord, who hopes to latch onto the name and thereby advance his or her own goals.  Little touches like this, done by the DMs, don't need to have mechanical implications; they have setting implications, and they're a really good way to say 'You're doing something right'.  I strongly support more active attention to this aspect of long-term characters.

Also as I read over the thread and notice all the talk about older PC's having more staying power, or inherint benefit, I can't help but be reminded of all the discussions I've seen regarding loot.  I've seen, and been on the receiving end, of DM loot that, while not signifigantly giving me an incredible edge over other PC's in terms of mechancial power, has been a nice little reminder of character uniqueness.  Running around in full Shadovar leather with a couple of modifications that can only be accomplished by a toolset is like being bearhugged by a DM.  Even if you die, you are usually given the option of retaining loot, so in a sense this has given a sort of 'divider' between the flash-in-the-pan PC's, and the long-term PC's.  Long-term PC's accumulate enough loot that they are mechanically superior already, unless they are unlucky.  Having the ability to potentially bounce back despite being kicked in the face by a level 11 bandit warrior is part of the benefit, to say nothing of their staying power in PVP, which is something to be considered.

There's a certain amount of permadeath on quests and things, but that seems to be just people becomming disillusioned with the character, or dying to the point where they can't suffer looking at the screen anymore.  Considering the assumption (correct or incorrect) that in order to be a big mover and shaker, a PC has to be at least level 5 to contend with the powerquested flash-in-the-pan PC's, after having looked at that huge mountain of questing that it would have taken to restore what was essentially irreplacable equipment, I have opted to retire characters altogether instead.  That's just the nature of the beast.  

The truth is that once you've worked hard enough for something, to see it taken away cheaply is very painful.  People spend thousands of dollars on things like rings and suits and stuff they just hang in their closets or tuck away in jewelery boxes after wearing once; if I put months into a PC, and all the effort, so that I can have a +2 Sword of Goblin slaying and the respect of the NPC population, the way I figure it, losing that is pretty much the same.  Except, I could kill goblins with that sword!  

Having said that, sometimes it's also time for the character to die.  When that happens, if they were integral to one plot or another plot, then it's also satisfying to see that their death had an affect on the server - that they weren't just another flash-in-the-pan character who could be replaced easily.  So while it might break plots, and derail a few things, sometimes it's best simply to let it lie.  Or perhaps start another quest; how many times, even in real life, have there been journeys to recover the ashes of some saint or the sword of some hero?  We, in D&D, have the benefit of magic to help us bring back these things, so it seems strange to me that I have never seen it tried.

Basically,

+ I think having NPC's recognize long-lived PC's is awesome.
+ I think DM quests tailored to hook certain PC's or groups, in specific, is a very strong indication of the character's value in-setting.
- I don't like the idea of mechanical bonuses being awarded simply based on time; I like Howland's third idea better than his first two.
- I think the ratio of 'long term' characters to 'flash-bang' characters is fine, as it is; though, I do think in-character rewards for 'renown' is an awesome idea.