A Dominion Reorganization

[Iron Oligarch]

I laughed aloud at the idea of "typical feudalism" in this thread. There's no such thing, and never was -- what we call "feudalism" was an extreme oversimplification of what some medieval governments looked like. Furthermore, governments with feudalistic elements often exhibited just the sort of uncertainty and a lack of an authoritative hierarchy that is being "fixed" here.

It's possible to make all sorts of statements about the development and state of the Dominion, and propose alternative structures of government, but that's best left to politician and theorist PCs ingame.

To say that proposing these changes ICly is "impossible" is silly: the policies of rulers are frequently influenced by individuals without official government power, and Duke Trenada is no exception. That said, don't expect to get much response from a civics-class essay titled "[Duke Trenada] //DM" -- work for it. Take the actions of current political PCs as an example of what you can do inside the structure of the law. This suggestion is valid, but it is very silly to post such a thing here.

[AnkhOfYmph]

Actually, I'm a little confused about how it's not already set up in the manner of the OP... I mean... Duke's in charge... then there's some Lords and Nobles and then the Stygians...

There's the Militia and it has its structure... then the patricians outrank the citizens outrank the guests... slaves are there near the bottom...

Yeah, there's not a post that outright states it, but where is it not clear that there is a sort of order of merit for where people stand?

[Wafflecone_Hiatus]

At the top of the Ziggerat (see what I did thar) is THE DUKE.
 
Below THE DUKE (who kicks ass and chews bubblegum) is the COUNCIL OF PEERS, made up of the TRUE NOBLES of the colony - people endowed with true authority and posistion. These are landowners, old money, houses. Durjure, Stenton, Harvix, and...one or two more I think. Adventurers MAY become lords after time and effort (they have a tendency to die though). These peers serve Lord Trenada, help manage domestic policy, and generally manage the colonies economy. In modern terms, think of these as corporations.
 
Honestly if you know anything about modern american politics, a CEO isn;t much different from a noble lord by this point.
 
Below them are Patricians. Wealthy merchants, craftsmen, skilled labor. People with the coin or clout to have a little authority, but they still answer to the military authority.
 
And then there's citizens/guests/slaves etc.
 
Below the COUNCIL OF PEERS

[Porkolt]

The fun thing about the zig is that there are plenty of hierarchical structures, set out quite clearly, but the interaction between those structures is complex and unclear.

For example: does a militiaman order a patrician around, or vice versa? When I played a militiaman, I actually stripped someone of their patricianship one day, and got into a scuffle with a different one about not giving them enough respect the next.

Which of those is the way it's set up? I think it's vague enough to allow for a myriad of RP.


The main gist of the OP seems to be taking Stygians out of watchman duty and into elite stuff, and making militiamen less of useless goons with no real authority (which they are, give some of them arrest wands ffs).

[Dr Dragon]

I laughed aloud at the idea of "typical feudalism" in this thread. There's no such thing, and never was -- what we call "feudalism" was an extreme oversimplification of what some medieval governments looked like. Furthermore, governments with feudalistic elements often exhibited just the sort of uncertainty and a lack of an authoritative hierarchy that is being "fixed" here.

It's possible to make all sorts of statements about the development and state of the Dominion, and propose alternative structures of government, but that's best left to politician and theorist PCs ingame.

To say that proposing these changes ICly is "impossible" is silly: the policies of rulers are frequently influenced by individuals without official government power, and Duke Trenada is no exception. That said, don't expect to get much response from a civics-class essay titled "[Duke Trenada] //DM" -- work for it. Take the actions of current political PCs as an example of what you can do inside the structure of the law. This suggestion is valid, but it is very silly to post such a thing here.

Finally someone who agrees with me,

[Aethereal]

Finally someone who agrees with me,

I agree with the sentiment as well. Complexity is part of what allows the variety of possible interactions we currently have in EFU:A. Where PCs who seek to garner a name for themselves can follow a rough outline rather than purposely progress through very specific ranks.

I very much echo the words of Porkolt here as outlined below.

The fun thing about the zig is that there are plenty of hierarchical structures, set out quite clearly, but the interaction between those structures is complex and unclear.

For example: does a militiaman order a patrician around, or vice versa? When I played a militiaman, I actually stripped someone of their patricianship one day, and got into a scuffle with a different one about not giving them enough respect the next.

Which of those is the way it's set up? I think it's vague enough to allow for a myriad of RP.

A submissive and non authoritative patrician might succumb to the authority of a militiaman even if this was not the militiaman's right to do. This one interaction could then branch out into so many different possibilities.

The militiaman could be commended and the patrician permanently stripped of their status or the militiaman would be reprimanded and the patrician vindicated, perhaps if they are some kind of submissive sadist Loviataran they could also see the culprit whipped. And this is just one example of a plethora of wondrous possibilities.

[Ebok]

To say that proposing these changes ICly is "impossible" is silly: the policies of rulers are frequently influenced by individuals without official government power, and Duke Trenada is no exception. That said, don't expect to get much response from a civics-class essay titled "[Duke Trenada] //DM" -- work for it. Take the actions of current political PCs as an example of what you can do inside the structure of the law. This suggestion is valid, but it is very silly to post such a thing here.

To be honest, I just wanted to know what other people thought about it. It may have been more useful under general discussion. This is me sharing the idea. As I said originally, I never thought that this post would suddenly = reality just becasue I posted it; it would have to happen IG by DMs and Players, and I figured it wouldn't hurt to have both group's have a place to chime in with what could be their "ideal".

The only reason I have it posted here, is that DangerousDan said I should. :P And the only reason I told DrD this isn't something a payer can do, is because it involved completely restructuring a DM faction and creating a new one. Maybe that's something someone like RwG can get done, but I personally don't have that kind of time.

[Aethereal]

Maybe that's something someone like RwG can get done, but I personally don't have that kind of time.

Do not sell yourself short. Persistence is key. I say if you really wanted to you could see it done.

It doesn't mean it would happen in a day a week or even a month, it may take several months depending on how much time you have to spend in game or otherwise but you could still see it done, I'm sure, if you try.

[The Old Hack]

I don't see why that sort of idea shouldn't be posted, but it may not be that Suggestions is the right place. You could try to use it as a basis for a new player faction that wants things more organised, for example. Doing something as a group is always easier than trying to push for it alone.

[Winston Martin]

"Freeze buddy, Stygian Police!"

[GoldenArrow]

Throwing this in here, since I see it's mildly related;

I had a lot of fun when I was fighting for citizenship.  When you're restructuring the way the Armada works, consider that most people who come to the Ziggurat are NOT naturalized.  They're just random riff-raff dragged in by a magical beam of light.  Why would you trust them with citizenship right off the bat?  Why aren't they forced to do some sort of service, before being granted their citizenship?  Instead, there's an NPC that just HANDS OUT citizenship papers.

It makes the entire process rather... bland.  Perhaps it is a necessary blandness, but if it required a Patrician's endorsement to become a citizen, or an Armada endorsement, it would promote a lot of RP and conflict and perhaps even politics.  

Just my ten cents.

[el groso]

Throwing this in here, since I see it's mildly related;

I had a lot of fun when I was fighting for citizenship.  When you're restructuring the way the Armada works, consider that most people who come to the Ziggurat are NOT naturalized.  They're just random riff-raff dragged in by a magical beam of light.  Why would you trust them with citizenship right off the bat?  Why aren't they forced to do some sort of service, before being granted their citizenship?  Instead, there's an NPC that just HANDS OUT citizenship papers.

It makes the entire process rather... bland.  Perhaps it is a necessary blandness, but if it required a Patrician's endorsement to become a citizen, or an Armada endorsement, it would promote a lot of RP and conflict and perhaps even politics.  

Just my ten cents.

[like]

[Staring Death]

I find it rather silly that you must obtain a citizenship. It feels a whole lot more like a kidnapping to me! I'd stay away from those crazy people who kidnap me with a mythallar.

And yes, it may not be their fault that the mythallar activates... but it's not like much effort are put into stopping it. Guilty by inaction!

Crazy kidnapping people.

[Egon the Monkey]

The fun thing about the zig is that there are plenty of hierarchical structures, set out quite clearly, but the interaction between those structures is complex and unclear...

I think Porkolt's managed to nail what the problem is. If you don't know how ranks interact, you don't in any real way have a heirarchy.

Yes, anyone playing a Militiaman right now could send a note to "Armada [DM]" saying "Who can I give orders to and when", but something in the faction forum or info itself saying their designated duties and rank would be avoid every character doing this or making the same mistake. Then if your PC wants to overstep his bounds and take a risk, he can. If he wants to play by the book, he can. That's what separates the Dominion from the Docks, you should know where you stand.

If you have no idea what a DM will have your superiors do, it's a disincentive to go making decisions and generating plots when you don't know if you're going to curry favour or drop yourself in it by succeeding. You can talk to PCs or know their reputations. It's harder to ask an NPC "what do I do here" or find out what accepted social standing is.

[Decimate_The_Weak]

Let's just keep it simple.

Make the militia the "police". Make the Stygian elite. Done, done, done & done.