Decapitation Too Easy

[Oroborous]

I've watched some assassinations lately, more like a half-dozen. What I've realized is that the emote *decapitates smoothly* or *decapitates brutally* is far too easy a way to just force another player into permadeath.

I'm raising this here for people to discuss, but I'd think at the very least you should have to roll a STR check against the corpse to sever the head. Which is then created as a new object, which the killer must then pick up if he wants to ghost off with it.

Of all the assassinations that I've seen in the last three months, each one that succeeded did so because this emote was made-each that failed did so because the assassin didn't make this emote but actually tried to cart off the entire corpse to prevent a raise.

[Gwydion]

Agree.

If chopping off a head was easy, they wouldn't have invented the guillotine.

The biggest strongest men with huge axes had to have the neck placed properly on a flat wooden block, and it often took several swings with the sharpest edge they could create.

[Meldread]

To be a bit gruesome...

I've actually seen someone get their head cut off.  It isn't a pretty thing to watch, and it was with a knife.  It took about fifteen seconds of sawing.

So in PvP you'd be layed out flat on your back, face toward the ground.  All someone has to do is step up behind you, pull out a dagger, and place their foot on the small of your back (to prevent you from rising).  Then they'd pull your head back by the hair to completely expose and stretch your neck, take the dagger (which is really a long knife) and begin to saw back and forth.  There would be a lot of gurgling, the amount of blood that is spilled likely depends on the individual, and of course there would be screaming and some thrashing about.  Of course, this only lasts about half way through cutting someones neck, after that most of the sound stops.

All in all it takes about fifteen seconds, maybe as little as ten if you're working quickly.  I imagine if you're using a sword or axe it might take two good hard swings.  Of course, if you factor in magical enchantments then it likely is a very smooth decapitation with a single swing.

So, yeah... likely more information than anyone wanted.  And as a final bit of advice do not let anyone encourage you to watch an Al Qaeda video all the way through.  The endings are rather disturbing.

[Oroborous]

Even 15 seconds is two or three rounds.

*chops off head* is a 1 second emote.

Those extra two rounds make a huge difference sometimes.

[Listen in Silence]

It was also developed to ease the horrible job of whomever had to do the actual decapitation, since the previous route to doing so included large amounts of alcohol.

But yes, a sort of /e thing involving a locking effect - such as the one when you yank packs - would be ideal.

[Pup]

This thread sounds like a joke.  It is also incredibly difficult to beat someone near to death with a sword or axe or whatever WITHOUT killing them.  And don't give me the "strikes with the flat of the blade".  But we do it all the time.

Not to mention that these are "unusual" people, our characters.  If my char can kill 5 consecutive ogres at one swing each, how hard can one little human head be to remove?

While I agree that if you choose to cut someone's head off you should take your time and emote it, I think adding rolls and mechanics is entirely unnecessary.

[Egon the Monkey]

My 2 penn'orth:
Any decapitation should result in the spawning of a head item, which the killer has to dispose of if they want to prevent any respawn.

Bodies are a bugger to move, but a simple pre-quickslotted emote removes the entire problem. A rule that you have to actually perform a a couple of bashes on the corpse in order to do it could be implemented without any technical changes, as you need a DM to destroy a body anyway.

In the UD, a head item was requested by a Lizardman PC when he killed Elina Adair from ambush, and the resulting recovery of her head by some vengeful good guys and raising was IMO some cool RP and challenge.

As an aside, if a mage wants to assassinate someone, can they fire a destructive spell at the corpse from a distance and emotes [Blows their head into a smoking crater]?

[Letsplayforfun]

*casts nervous glances behind him, searching for mad axe-men beheaders*

[Meldread]

I have to agree with Pup on this.  While I understand the point of view held by others, and actually agree with Oroborous that it should take more than one second, I don't want to see something scripted.

I understand it isn't about "realism" but more about working to ensure that someone can be raised after PvP.  I think if someone goes through the trouble of actually killing a PC, and want that PC dead enough that they chop off the head... well... that's how it rolls, no pun intended.

Generally speaking when that happens, a PC has done something to deserve it or stands in the way of another groups ambitions.  Having the PC raised kinda undermines it all and makes assassination pointless, if all you have to do is coordinate your log on with other PC's, so that any assault on you is met with your group ripping the assassin to shreds.  If all he has is a 15 second window to kill his target or be killed, and wants to spend one second of that time hitting a hotkey "*decapitates smoothly and runs like hell*" then oh well.

I think a better compromise would be for the DM's to put the head object on the PC who did the decapitation.  Let the PC's go hunt down the assassin and get the head back.

[Allatum]

If you want to be hard core, you can just strip the armor off and emote cutting their heart out by slicing underneath the ribcage. It would still take a few rounds depending on the armor. For that matter, you could really get away with just removing any important organ to require Resurrection instead of Raise Dead.

Though I really think if you're going to go that far, you should get some DM oversight since I think it's stated that they can make the call if a body is destroyed or not.

[core]

I think this is kind of the same deal as the old "can you snatch a gold pouch in one round" argument. If you are strong enough to beat someone in plate armour almost to death, you are probably strong enough to hack off someone's head in a few seconds.

[ScottyB]

I've been under the impression that destruction or mutilation of a corpse always requires DM enforcement (similar to how dice rolls are entirely consentual without a DM); if the corpse item is available to players and can be targeted by a Raise Dead spell, and the assassin objects, I'd probably have said, "you should have gotten a DM to back you up before you went through with this." Sometimes I could be a real hardass. Dunno what Mort the Merciless would do. ;)

I'd rather not see a scripted way for players to enforce permadeath. Asking the active DMs how they think an unrecoverable assassination should be performed should be adequate to address our concerns.

[9lives]

Scotty's got it.

And when it comes down to the emotes, it's about personal style and judgement.