Nightriser Barracks Quest

[Gwydion]

I think the Barracks quest is an extremely poor payout in terms of gold, supplies and XP.

Unless people are keeping the loot without any RP to tip it off, (which sucks azz IMO) then I for one will never do this quest again.

It requires a significant amount of supplies in blurs, invis and healings to get through IMO, with a nasty end boss.   And the payout seems very poor.

Thanks

[Semli]

I was just in the group that did this, and yeah, we got seriously screwed by the payout.  I figure someone's going to chime in "sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not."  I've had significantly better payouts on this quest during other occasions, however.

My main problem with the quest is that the stuff towards the end forces you to consume resources, and whereas other quests in EfU:A that rely on this pay significantly better, this one at best has mediocre payouts, and the Nightriser themed loot is no where near as useful as other QA specific loot (even lower level ones like the Jergali crypt).

I think the best solution is to rework the Nightriser gear to be a little more impressive, or if good pieces exist, to make them drop a tiny bit more frequently.

[Hammerfist0]

Ive been screwed by it also. Almost 1000 gold difference between what was made and what was used.

Love the quest, but could definitively use some unique items to it.

[Pup]

It definitely pays out big sometimes, but not usually.  I would say at least 75% of the time it pays out very poorly.  Whether the group is 8 people or 3.

[Nihm]

You can't judge the drops unless it was you that collected, because people do skim.
Time and time again I see people lay out scads of Darkvision and Entropic shield potions only when I know full well that a quest drops other things.
 
Other argument is that as one of the oldest quests, most people know how to do it with maximum efficiency.  For this reason alone I don't think it should have better loot.

[Letsplayforfun]

I'd add that you shouldn't judge a quest loot table on it's own. It's part of a whole picture.

Some quests (lowbies) drop ridiculous high loot, some don't drop loot, some give XP but no loot, others loot but little XP, some you waste a hoard of consumables, some you breeze though...

You just have to make the most of what you get on every quest AND trade.

[Egon the Monkey]

Off the top of my head, I can think of 3 really good but rare drops on that quest. One consumable, 2 pieces of armour.

Actually, on the subject of skimming off quests "thief mode" is ridiculously good. Only once have I ever spotted someone "discreetly acquiring" something. As someone said on a thread about looting, can the DC for spotting it be hugely lowered for armor, large weapons and other stuff you can't sneakily palm.

For those of you who hate that shit, do what I do. I open every container I see, and memorise any cool stuff I suspect may be nicked. I usually emote [peers in box/at table, touching nothing] too. Then if some of that stuff doesn't turn up, whoever collected gets the "Yeah, bollocks that's all, cough up the rest [stares meaningfully at the big axe/Hold Person Scroll]" treatment.

[Gwydion]

Two follow up comments to these responses.

1.  There are invariably the posters who argue every suggestion made and say,  "I just did this quest recently and it wasn't THAT bad."  This is my opinion.  I think this quest is unbalanced, and I for one will not play it again unless it is plot relate somehow.  The old "ogres poisoning the river" quest was the same way, and it was rarely if ever played by most characters.  

I think this server revolves around characters meeting other characters and questing together.  That's how you meet new characters without IRC or OOC Tells to coordinate you and your buddies "randomly" getting together.  If it becomes necessary to metagame by only questing with top players in a well-coordinated group to survive non-spice scripted quests, the heart of what makes EFU fun is gone.  

I can't fathom the average front-liner doing this quest successfully without a barkskin, 2 blurs, and at least 5 cure serious potions or ten herb kits applied.  That will also likely include a circle of PFE, strength, endurance and the usual various misc. buffs.  Not to mention maybe an invis potion to get away when you get hammered by 3 negative energy bursts, and a nightriser commander crits you.

That's a lot of supplies.  And a decent chance of dying.  For a frequently very paltry payout.

Some of you may think it's easy, and sometimes I thought it was too.  But there needs to be more healing potions, barkskins, blurs and decent items dropped as a bare minimum, or I'd strongly advise players avoid this quest like it was the plague.


2.  People who run around, sometimes stealthed, and pick up loot are exploiting pure cheese IMO.  I've seen characters literally sprint over to the main boss that just died, or empty 10 chests in the final chamber things without any effort at emoting keeping the loot laterl.

A halfling picking up and carrying double digit potions, a suit of armor, shield, boots, and a partridge in a pair tree OUGHT to emote that his previously small knapsack is bursting with items.  I consider this as bad a metagaming tactic as any.  

As a matter of fact, I think a player that is keeping more than one small piece of loot to themselves should notify a DM, emote the 14 potion bottles and the new shield clanking in their pack, and be ready for PvP or flight when they get called out on it.  

Just some of my thoughts.  I really don't want to have to RP tactics solely necessary to prevent people from OOCly screwing party members by exploiting our inability to have a chance to detect pilfering.   It's immersion breaking to me, and directly weakens my character who gravely needs that coin/supplies to survive on this challenging server.

[Gwydion]

I should add, I really like this quest.  

The difficulty is just fine.  There is a nice tactical problem to overcome, and it's well-designed.

Just would like to see either the gold, XP, or consumable drops to be improved to make it a bit more reasonable.

[bob7el]

2. People who run around, sometimes stealthed, and pick up loot are exploiting pure cheese IMO. I've seen characters literally sprint over to the main boss that just died, or empty 10 chests in the final chamber things without any effort at emoting keeping the loot later.

This is a big reason why you find players grouping in familiar niches.  Knowing someone can play their PC without OOCly screwing you over is a huge factor in group effectiveness.

[JackOfSwords]

This is a big reason why you find players grouping in familiar niches.  Knowing someone can play their PC without OOCly screwing you over is a huge factor in group effectiveness.

Unfortunately, the players that need to read that statement the most are probably so unconcerned with RP that they don't read the forums.  I've a long list of people I won't quest with, except in certain situations.  The thing they all have in common is how they are more OOC-focused on the loot than they are on anything else about questing with other players.

[Caddies]

This quest actually gives excellent XP, Gwydion. Unless of course you did it on L6-7 in a small group or something.

[MisterPAIN]

Unfortunately, the players that need to read that statement the most are probably so unconcerned with RP that they don't read the forums.  I've a long list of people I won't quest with, except in certain situations.  The thing they all have in common is how they are more OOC-focused on the loot than they are on anything else about questing with other players.

Sometimes it's a version of the opposite, as in LOOT NAZI STYLE.

I remember I had a generally nice 18 CHA woman (in most cases other than emotionality -_-) that asked to split the coin while the suspicious in character but not thief ugly face lootbot layed everything down and wound up being a social PARIAH after trying to put an effort for ICness.  Being called a bitch by much of the party after simply asking and arguing IC against the logical IC reasons to break the OOC one lootman having all the stuff and all the gold handling at the end was pretty hardcore immersion breaking.  But whatever I suppose having people's characters having a strong fixation on obscure morals that support OOCness is IC >_>.

[Letsplayforfun]

Mr Pain, no offense, but i didn't get your meaning. Say again?

[Equinox]

caddies is right. this quest is -meant- to make you use your consumables. Do this quest at lvl 5 or 6 with a full party, you get shitloads.

remember people, consumables are there to be USED. they are nto for sitting in your invent and looking pretty or saving up for the odd pvp you -might- have so you outnumber your opponent with buffs.

want to stay alive? use your consumables. imo, exp is more valuable than gold anyway!

EDIT: also i have done this quest as a frontliner, and used only one blur and entropic shield potion to get past the archers. ever heard of a cleric spell called darkness? 50% chance they miss.. there is also an item that has charges of it... really if you have a decent team and a good game plan. its not that hard a quest.