The Aryran Perks?

[Ancient Mystery]

Just curious why folks are interested in giving perks to "pure" this and that. Quite frankly, other then multi-classing fighter/rogue, I think the class system is set up in a way that benefits non-multiclassers, especially on such a low level server such as ours. I enjoy playing multi-class characters, but on average I'd say my pure class characters are better mechanically. Maybe a 10/10 character is better, then a 20, but I think 3/4's are generally worse then 7's. Am I wrong in thinking this?

[Spiffy Has]

Four fighter three rogue only loses 1 ab and gains umd open lock persuade intimidate bluff disable trap evasion 2d6sneak attack...

Four fighter three bard gains bard song umd persuade bluff arcane magic use and more

the list goes on.

[CroakingOpera]

Yes and no.

[Ancient Mystery]

I'll give you fighter/rogue, probably the most powerful build in the game. But even fighter/bard....? Yes, you get arcane wands, yes you get bard song. But you lose out on a ton too. Your song will never get powerful, your feats will be more limited. I'll grant that its close either way. Just not sure why, if that's the case, people would want to reward PC's who are not multi-classed over those who are.

[Egon the Monkey]

The reason for rewarding non-multiclassed PCs of certain classes is because otherwise there's little reason to NOT multiclass, so you never see a single class PC. In default NWN, Rogues get nothing from L3-9 other than more Sneak Attack Damage and their skillpoints. Thus, a couple of levels of Ranger or Fighter has always been a good investment. More feats, HP, AB. Now with the pure rogue only loot and perks, multiclassing is a tradeoff, not the default choice of action.

Few players multiclass a Wizard or Sorc for example, as all their power is from their class ability of "Casts Arcane Spells", and you want the best caster level and spell selection you can. Multiclass them and you get crappy damage off your spells and crappy AB off your attacks, so no way to hurt anything well. Those that do multiclass tend to have 1 level of another class for proficiency feats or stealth or something, and the rest Wizard or Sorc. Or 1 level of Wiz/Sorc for wands and a few spells like True Strike.

Incidentally, you came close to Godwin-ing this thread on the title. That's a record ;).

[Nufferz]

Bard multiclassing also gives access to spellcraft and any arcane scroll use (which is a big bonus)

[Luke Danger]

I've played a few pure classes, namely Gloin, my dwarven fighter. Trust me, they're pretty much a limited bag. Giving pure classes some perks should be done to represent that they've dedicated themselves to a style rather than pulled an assortment, but these perks should have limits to them so that multi-classes can keep up.

Really, it's a case of pure fighters are just crush and nothing more really; it's hard to play a persuasive one without rogue levels as they lack social skills and EFUSS diplomacy isn't exactly a huge booster.

[Garem]

Specialization is, unfortunately, rarely a blessing on EfU. Except for wizards and sorcerers, for obvious reasons.

More specifically, the benefits of taking one (or 2-3) level of rogue, fighter, ranger, barbarian, and to lesser extents paladin, druid, and bard often outweigh the penalties. If there are penalties at all, really. Looking specifically at the first four mentioned- any multiclass of that group can lead to some pretty amazingly powerful combos.

[Jayde Moon]

Also, for the OP:

Yes, you get arcane wands, yes you get bard song. But you lose out on a ton too. Your song will never get powerful, your feats will be more limited.

When multiclassing this way you don't think of what you lose out cause you didn't go all out bard... it's taken from the perspective of what you gain as a fighter who adds that bit of power to his repertoire.  So it's all gain.

[TheImpossibleDream]

I'll give you fighter/rogue, probably the most powerful build in the game. But even fighter/bard....? Yes, you get arcane wands, yes you get bard song. But you lose out on a ton too. Your song will never get powerful, your feats will be more limited. I'll grant that its close either way. Just not sure why, if that's the case, people would want to reward PC's who are not multi-classed over those who are.

Multiclassing bard gives you the following: UMD, Auto success on Arcane wands, Improved will and reflex save (+2 at level 1, which continues to increase as you take more levels) spellcraft, tumble, Arcane wands, No ab loss due to song and +1 ab to your allies, +2 damage that stacks with weapon specialization, listen, basic pvp buffs.

Multiclassing Rogue gives you: UMD, Improved reflex, Evasion, Uncanny dodge, sneak attack, tumble, open lock, disarm trap, spot, listen, search disable and set trap.

Multiclassing cleric gives you: Spellcraft, Divine wands, Improved Will and Fortitude (again +2 at level 1, which continues to increase as you take more levels) Access to all basic pvp buffs under level 3 for more than long enough to use them in pvp, Domain abilities (like war and strength)

Multiclassing makes you stronger. Unless you do it wrong, then it's crippling.

[Ancient Mystery]

I am sold on your arguments.

[Dr Dragon]

How about perks for Nordic Aryans?