I fought the law and the law won

[Semli]

'Eh.

Trials were -really- boring. A lot of the people involved bitched after the fact that  they would have preferred a quicker FD (see recent post where character had drawn out death involving trial, said to do it faster next time). It is good for plot, good for immersion, but ultimately pointless and annoying for the person that has to sit through it if death is a foregone conclusion (or rather, even a strong possibility).

Sometimes it helps showing people how you'd like it to turn out ("Please don't kill me!" "W-w-wait, you gotta give me a trial, or some shit?" "If I get out of this, I'm gonna kill all you sons-of-bitches!"). They don't necessarily have to act on that, but they might take it into consideration.

Probably Naga sums it up best. We're all in it to win it, so, I don't know what to tell ya'.

[Porkolt]

If people are given the choice wether to be courteous, and consistently choose not to be, there are two solutions to the problem (as opposed to doing nothing).
 
The bad solution is enforcing courtesy, as noted before.
 
The good solution is taking the decision out of their hands.
 
Get other players than the ones who just got their adrenaline pumping from PvP to make the decision.
 
PC magistrates. Do it.

[Egon the Monkey]

Trials are very good if the PC accused is a sneaky bastard who can use bribed/threatened/corrupt witnesses, fast-talking and alibis to get out of a sentence. Or in the rare cases where a PC is innocent. If the PC doesn't have a chance in hell of getting off and the player would rather just end it, I can see how one would be frustrating. On the other hand though, my most annoying moments on crooked PCs have been when they've tried to turn the tables on their accuser or offer to sell out some of their associates for freedom, only to be rebuffed by a swift NPC judgement.

As it stands IC, it's only supposed to be High Treason that doesn't allow a trial. I can see a problem is that DMs don't want to keep an NPC possessed to officiate over trials, so they favour summary judgements to allow them to move on and run something else. Fair enough, that's where PC magistrates shine because that means a player WANTS to be involved.

IMO, a good solution would be to appoint PC magistrates as well as using the NPC Tyrran, but only if the PC who was convicted demands to appeal the judgement or the Stygian wants a trial for whatever reason. ICly, your average thug might not have bothered to read about how to appeal. That allows a player to avoid a trial if they just want to get on and roll up a new PC or pay the fine and be done with it, or to contest the judgement if they want to.

A PC you're constantly chasing and skirmishing with might be interesting, but how much cooler a conflict is a mob boss you can't get any crimes to stick to even if you do catch them? Or someone who always escapes before trial? That's the sort of thing that promotes using assassins, informants, maybe going against your own laws to put an end to them.

[Porkolt]

If a criminal PC doesn't want to do the trial because they don't stand a chance they can plead guilty and hope for leniency. Eventually it comes down to how much style the magistrate wants to put into it.

[Wafflecone_Hiatus]

Trials allow for more RP and are great, there would be more of them if PC's could actually conduct them instead of forcing a DM to do it.

[you axed for it]

I think you should be railing against the best ganking class in the game being given teleportation and scrying instead of the law/criminal dichotomy, which hasn't really changed since EFU's inception. ;)

Basically, if you roll up a PC who is evil/chaotic and has devious or murderous plans, you sign up for being FD'd by law enforcement if you're caught. Its an invisible contract you sign at the character creation screen, similar in fact to choosing to play a monstrous subrace.

Also, PC magistrates are indeed sweet. I support that.

[Divine Intervention]

The thing with trials is actually a very good point and is mentioned ICly.  Crimes that are not judged to be against the dominion or very high profile are meant to have a trial for those suspected of involvement.  The Armada is really meant to pronounce judgement only in the cases of dangerous and well known criminals, although the laws may have changed since then.  However if they are like that it means those pcs who know they will be fd'd will have it over quickly and those that don't will get a chance.

[Gennedy]

I still haven't gotten into the pvp angle of the server, though I intend to. I just wanted to say I really dig the magistrate and trial idea. If someone doesn't want that side they can always just say so and end their char. With the magistrates and trials and such the potential RP value is too good to pass up, imo.

[Mort]

If Faction X kills one of your allies you are perfectly justified in slaying members of Faction X as if they were the ones inflicting the killing blow. Being a member of a faction means you take responsibility for every single member's actions, whether they are your friend or foe within the faction.

No, lol. It's normal to expect hostility, but that's not how you should roll at all. People from Lower killing newly made Spellguard because they have a grudge against .... whatever should have nailed it in your head that each character should be treated separately, and that's it's 'ok' to provide hostility (i.e. threaten, be on your guard, be suspicious, etc.), but not necessairly SLAY as IF you had an history with each of them. Same goes for PC faction 'gang'. Just because a random 'name' has been tagged to a great criminal by some joe-informant doesn't give the crimes of the great criminal to this 'name' and law enforcers should treat each PC separately.

[Random_White_Guy]

The issue with trials, as said, is some are really really boring. If captured I'd 100% of the time rather FD instead of having to sit through a bunch of PCs I've never met having pomp and circumstance about my demise.

And yeah Caddies, I know it's a thing you accept when you choose the mad life of awesome crime. I fully plan to continue doing it but it was just something I noticed lately and thought to highlight. By all means don't let this chase anyone from being a criminal. Crime is most awesome and should be fully pursued!

[TeufelHunden]

It is actually one of my goals if I get approved to be a Stygian to FD the least amount of people possible simply because I've played so many criminals lol.

[Shamtastic]

Kill 'em all, let the DM's Sort it out..


Sarcasm aside, FD should be an honor, earned. Don't sully it by being a noob and running off to get your gank on, if someone let's you live. FFS, IC you just got mercy from certain death, it should change your world view a bit, take an ooc beat and think on that, not the ooc fact you just got your ass handed to you in PVP..

And if your FDing folk's regardless if Jonnie Law or Joe Docks, you just earned that honor for yourself, so don't be surprised if you get it reciprocated.  At a certain level, conflict is pretty much all there is..so think before you end some really good rp-how quickly will you be bored crushing the same quests over and over, if this enemy/antagonist/etc is removed from the game world?  Simple case of take a beat, and think before you act.  Just because it is IC and story appropriate to kill them, does not necessarily mean you should.  It is a game, after all, and needs players to work well.

Just my two cents worth.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Bail bonds

[Howlando]

I don't agree with some of what is being said in this thread. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. I'm not aware of many incidents occurring in which executions are handed out prematurely; this is a harsh and challenging server and should remain such.

A cautious criminal that rarely kills tends not to be executed, but PCs that embrace heavy notoriety and is involved in FD should surely expect the possibility of being caught and facing consequences. It would be rather dull otherwise.

In my opinion monstrous PCs should be slaughtered and killed without much mercy, if you sign up to play one you should be aware that is your probable ultimate fate.

Guidelines about PvP Karma remain true, and demonstrating IC and OOC courage by not necessarily killing your enemies is always something to be encouraged.


Concerns about specific incidents should be brought to the attention of the DM team. And for what it's worth, I do think RWG's most recent death is something that should be discussed privately with those involved but has no bearing on this thread.

[prestonhunt]

Having been on both sides of this divide, I can honestly say that the best answer is just to keep it IC, with a mind for OOC consideration.

Though it is comical, I am reminded of Dr. Evil and Scott Evil arguing about the best way to deal with Austin Powers.  Scott pulling a gun and saying "I'll pop him right now!", and Dr. Evil saying "You're just not getting this, are you Scott..."

Really, indentured servitude exists as a means of continuing some characters that are caught but are also deserving of a second chance, and in my estimation it exists in place of the (ICly unfeasable) Life Sentence.  Perhaps it's use should be broadened among both Enforcement Factions?

Anyways, just a thought.