Allows Sorcerers the Divinition perks

[Coldburn]

First of all, you can't stack DR.
Second of all, limited spell selection for Sorcerers.
Third of all, it isn't fair you should invest 2 feats and don't get what Wizards get.

I feel extremely cheated on a very gimpy character already.

[AllMYBudgies]

First of all, you can't stack DR.
Second of all, limited spell selection for Sorcerers.
Third of all, it isn't fair you should invest 2 feats and don't get what Wizards get.

Well, if you can't stack DR then there doesn't seem to be any real reason not to implement the changes for sorcerers, especially with their already limited spell selection.

Divination really is a difficult spell school to deal with in regard to Sorcerers, and I don't envy your position playing one. I suppose it is a case of flavour versus mechanics though.

[Capricious]

You could potentially wind up with a balance problem comes if people take additional spell school focuses. I don't think you can only make it work with sorcerers, which means wizards would also be able to buff up their spells over multiple spell schools without having to focus on a single school. Unfortunately I don't know if there's a way around this, I could be mistaken.

On another note, C&C's extended duration has been cut from what's written on the forums. Unfortunately, the spell is too short to be effective to grant DR anymore, even with the divination feats. Ghostly Visage is a far superior option.

I hate to say this since it's kind of the stock answer, and I certainly sympathize with your dilemma. It seems to me the only real way to compensate is through DMs taking note of your roleplay and rewarding with something that compensates for the sorcerer's weakness in this regard.

[Porkolt]

First of all, you can't stack DR.
Second of all, limited spell selection for Sorcerers.
Third of all, it isn't fair you should invest 2 feats and don't get what Wizards get.
 
I feel extremely cheated on a very gimpy character already.

Argument #1: Non sequitur
Argument #2: So what? You knew you were getting into that when you chose to play a sorcerer.
Argument #3: You're not investing as much as wizards are. Wizards also choose specialization in divination, which means they no longer have access to the numerous highly useful spells of the illusion school.
 
 
It looks to me as though you were making a feat choice which on the surface looks like gimping for flavor, but which you didn't really expect it to be (getting basically an extra learned spell as sorc for two feats - it's not as though there are a whole lot of vital feats you had to pass up for that).
 
Now that it turns out that you really are gimped because you made a stupid mistake (because spell school specialization has been a factor from the very start, and for completely valid reasons), you're pissed and want the game to be changed because you don't know your mechanics.
 
 
If this is such a big issue, maybe you should ask a DM for a character rebuild instead of making mechanics suggestions for no other reasons than to patch up your own botched build.

[derfo]

armchairs

[Random_White_Guy]

My advice: Use Ghostly Visage. As I am currently playing a diviner wizard I agree with Cap 100%. C/C lasts like a fraction of the time Ghostly Visage does as it is a round/level spell instead of turn/level, even with the extensions.

Also missing out on a 3rd circle spell just for a few rounds of survival is fairly harsh. I'd much rather have haste to throw around, or some fireballs, but it fits the RP to have the spell.

Hell. Extended Ghostly Visage would still be third circle and like 1500% more useful. If it is an issue of Mechanics you feel slighted on don't- The change is a flavor one more than a utility one.

[Spiffy Has]

I am assuming sorcerers who specialize in Divination would feel that taking any illusion based spells would cripple their concept in the eyes watching.

Let them have it, if they invest two feats in it. They don't get the bonus spells wizards do get.

[MrGrendel]

On the note of that last sentence, let's not forget... a wizard's loss of a school is already compensated by the advantage of getting another spell per level, a significant reward for a caster.

I think it's fair to say the motivation for the changes should not be purely because of a wizard's "loss" in specializing, since this already has a hefty payout of another kind. However, if the reason behind the changes is opportunity cost in using a weaker school over a stronger...

Then I don't see how you can argue that someone other than a wizard who specializes by investing in Spell Focus of a "weaker" school should not benefit, by the same logic.

In other words, the spell focus feat changes should address the disparity between schools, and the changes made should be accessible by anyone who takes spell focuses of a "weak" school.

If, of course, you are going to argue that no school is really weaker than the other, then the entire reason for the spell focus changes flies out the window. Why compensate wizards for getting a free spell per level?

[Udenbur]

Since the DMs probably have their own take on this already, having implented it with Wizards and kept out Sorcerers, there really isn't any need for further discussion. They a. forgot about sorcerers or b. decided internally to keep sorcerers out.

So let's focus our rage elsewhere and let the DMs decide amongst themselves whether this is worth the time and effort to modify (if it's an oversight) or if its kept secluded.

[Howlando]

The various adjustments were made intended as flavor for spell school specialization Wizards. I wouldn't particularly mind it being implemented for sorcerers personally. But as you guys must not have noticed, Johannes is gone and so consequently it is incredibly unlikely any changes will be made to this system until further notice. It's also just very low priority.

The tendency for these lengthy back and forth discussions to go on about very trivial issues strikes me as most peculiar!

[Howlando]

P.S. We do have plans for sorcerers as well.

[Random_White_Guy]

Not to massively derail the topic but Sorcerers do get -BLOODMAGE-.

Wizards don't get anything that cool...Or do they? [dun dun duuuuun]

[Porkolt]

Bloodmage isn't exactly the same as special feat benefits.

[Coldburn]

Noticed Johannes was back - so bump.

[Jayde Moon]

Like a terrier with a hold of your pant leg, Coldburn's tenacity is relentless!