Marksman perk

[Drakill Tannan]

This goes considering the necromanctic raise of the marksman PrC. Since ranged weapons are so underused (with good reason, they are horrible in most scenarios) could a perk be implemented so that dedicated archers/slingers/crossbowmen don't suck?

Marksman
You gain +2 damage when using ranged weapons.
You gain an extra +2 damage when using crossbows.
You get a -1 AB penalty on melee weapons.
*not throwing weapons

To give a perspective...
Human figther, level 7, uses 5 feats: 1-10+6 damage, +12/+7 AB. (crossbow)
Elf ranger, level 7, uses 3 feats: 1-8+2 (+2 vs favored enemy) damage, +11/+11/+6 AB. (+3 vs favored enemy) (Longbow)
Halfling rogue, level 7, uses 3 feats: 1-4+2 damage, AB +10/+10 and sneak attack 4d6. (Sling)
*All assuming unbuffed and min-maxed stats

[TheImpossibleDream]

I've managed to land consistant 60 damage crits from a screen away with a longbow with the current commonly available/purchasable items. Shortbow is the same except it does 2 less possible damage, so 6 less on a crit.

Slings are amazing for halfling rogues as due to size modifier and thier +1 ab for slings they completely negate the rogues diminished bab.

Crossbows are simple weapons useable by most classes.

Ranged weapons being poor is just a popular misconception.

[Drakill Tannan]

Relying in 5% chance of doing decent damage is not very smart. Especially because a critical, unless you leand it with that +3 mighty bow and WS is likely to deal something arround 12-15 damage. What a buffed-greatsword fighter deals every round, a little less even. 5-10% of the time. Also rogues make good arcers. But they shouldn't be the only posible archers. And archers should be able to damage constructs and undead (i don't see why slingers couldn't harm a riser, or a crossbow bolt a clay golem)

Not comenting anymore on this thread, or i'll end up in a discussion and stress everyone out.

[One_With_Nature]

Ranged weapons do not need boosting at all. Theres plent of ammo you can find IG that adds to this damage or even have other on hit effects which are very useful.

Also- ranged weapons have a feat where they can add an additional attack each round (Rapid Shot).

So just imagine.. a level 8 rogue with a longbow:

2 attacks per round + 1 from rapid shot +1 haste

4 attacks at 4d6 (Sneak attack) +1d8 Longbow damage
=
128 damage in 1 round with a mundane longbow with no risk of being in close combat without even scoring a critical hit which for Bows is x3.. so really doesn't need a boost.

People who are playing non-rogue archers will likely be playing a full BAB class which means you have the benefit of hitting more often and not having to risk anything while still having access to some amazing ammo.

[One_With_Nature]

Marksman
You gain +2 damage when using ranged weapons.
You gain an extra +2 damage when using crossbows.

Also.. are you suggesting a perk adds +4 damage to crossbows..?

[Egon the Monkey]

Point Blank Shot/Rapid Shot = Ambidexterity/Dual Wield
A melee weapon can do all that + 1d6 flame weapon or Alch fire damage + 1 AB and DR beating from MW. Please try and base assumptions on average damage output not max crits. A max damage crit or sneak can feasibly kill most things, but it's rarely going to happen and you can't base a strategy around it.

The major problem is because of the weapon damage type (piercing) and lack of +Ab, they absolutely suck against the many undead, werecreatures and other DRed things on the server unless you get lucky and get a DM uber bow. Or spam a magic weapon wand onto 1 stack of darts at a time. At least this has got better since the quest range expanded. Also, you can take Called shot and try and slow stuff you can't damage, dull though that is.

I would suggest that this perk only be availably to PCs WITHOUT Rogue levels. With a Rogue it doesn't matter what weapon you use, it's a Sneak Attack delivery system. You just choose something with +AB or bonus dmg vs your target, or what weapon you focused in. The Sneak Attacks generally overwhelm DR if you can fire one.

Ranged weapons don't suck totally, in fact if every PC who could use one had a Longbow or Crossbow, a lot of quests would be simplified by mass barrages to thin out mobs or or where not all the team can pile into a small space to fight. I recall a DM event where everyone was trapped on one side of a ravine trying to kill an NPC. Only half the PCs had the brains to bring a ranged weapon, even just a sling that weighs 0.1lb. That said, it would be nice to see an alternative to the ever-parroted "Just Take Rogue levels DURRRR" for someone who wants to play a bow master without choosing an Arcane Archer or Assassin build.

[One_With_Nature]

Also a very nice combo to go with Ranged weapons is the Set Trap Skill. In both PvE and PvP.

[derfo]

ugh this topic

[Random_White_Guy]

If you want to make a special marksman perk to add flavor, sort of like "Skeleton in the closet" for necromancers it' simple:

Bowman Perk:  Every reset obtaining a unique set of arrows not found in any store, obtained through specialist contacts. Nothing overly strong but unique archer flavor.

I'd rather have that over a flat bonus to damage, or that other "Marksman PRC" that was suggested if I ever play ranged PC.

[Divine Intervention]

Considering the Arcane Archer prc gives you the ability to make arrows as stated in the description.  A perk would sort of remove the uniqueness of it.

[EfUA_undercover]

Isn't dealing dmg from a mile away perk enough?

[Lenthis]

A bow, Can kill someone as easily as a sword, and to be honest should hit harder then one, and faster, but- Should be utterly useless in close range combat. So I sugest a change to the perk.
 
+1 ab and +2 damage at 20M+ away.
-1 ab and -2 damage within 20M

[One_With_Nature]

They honestly don't need it.. besides thats like weapon specialisation and weapon focus thrown in for free. Perks are for flavour not mechanical advantages.

[Udenbur]

A perk providing a +1 damage bonus on all ranged weapons would not be stretching it, imho. Before shooting down the OP, consider the fact that ranged weapons are in fact scarcely used because of their innate weaker nature. For the sake of the argument, I could say that it makes up for being the only type of weapon insusceptible to weapon enchantments.

[Udenbur]

They honestly don't need it.. besides thats like weapon specialisation and weapon focus thrown in for free. Perks are for flavour not mechanical advantages.

They are for flavor, but they also provide mechanical advantages in almost every single case. Ranged weapon users do need some loving.