Scrying

[Capricious]

The only comment I have here is, as the player of a diviner one thing I've learned is there's a huge need for old fashioned spies. I've found that's where the majority of the best information comes from, and I don't see that changing.

[you axed for it]

Scrying is far, far easier to block than uber stealthers sitting in a room undetected, 2 foot away in plain sight. If anything, it needs to be made easier to detect PCs who take the mickey by standing right next to classes they know can't possibly make their spot DC even with modifiers. Say, a player tool that detects and deals 1 damage to any PC within a two-meter "grab range" but can only be used once per hour. A representation of taking a wild swing into the gloom when a closed door mysteriously opens or a lever mysteriously gets pulled.

Scrying is a rare trick, with a counter that's relatively easy to acquire (L7 caster or low-level questloot) and I believe causes you to waste the entire spell if blocked. It makes you worried about known Diviners, but not, in general, most mages.

LOL'd during the whole post.

[BeteNoire]

I used scrying on non-divination focused wizards to great success with no issues. Failing because someone used ward area costs you nothing, using ward area costs you a spell slot or a piece of loot.

I don't think it's a big deal either way, but I do think the DC needs a penalty, or a DC every round or something.

Edit - I also think Clerics should have access to this ability at a reasonable level on EFUA, rather than at level 11.

[Capricious]

Just to clarify, the spell has been adjusted inside the last month or so. The DCs are different, as is the chance of the subject detecting the caster. If you try to cast on a subject who's in a warded area you lose the spell, so you waste the spell slot. If the subject makes their will save you also lose the spell.

[Anonymous Bosch]

A check every round for everyone in the area of scrying does seem fair.  That's what stealthers have to deal with, without the threat of the guys being spied on turning round and beating you to death.

[prestonhunt]

Hear hear Bosch.  A save per round.

I have no dislike for scrying.  In fact, I like it a lot.  I do think that it offers too much advantage, for too little risk.

I dont know where all of the focus thingys are, but if they are in faction HQ's, lets just eliminate that argument as a factor of risk.

With regards to your post Howl, and how it amuses you.  I am personally amused that such pains were taken to "balance" stealth spells for just the same reasons in the not too distant past, but when the same concerns are brought up about scrying, its dismissed as ooc confusion and hate.  

Bottom line.  Anyone in the area being listened in on should get a save, not just the dope who was chosen for his likely presence and supposed low will save.  Also, if the save is made, the one making it should get a glimpse of who did it, and where they are at the time, imo.

YMMV

[Capricious]

No offense, but a save a round is absurd. The DC for scrying is nothing like the ranks a stealther has, who can be assured that 90% of the PCs will never see them no matter how long they're there. A save a round would mean the spell would be broken within half a minute in nearly all cases, and render it next to useless.

[prestonhunt]

But said wizard also does not have to be concerned with someone turning red, and immediately wtfpwning them upon detection.

[Relinquish]

If you want to go on a quest, you'll need a fighter, whether or not your faction/group has one means you'll have to find one.

If you want to go exploring where there are locked doors/traps you need a rogue to help you out, if you are not one.

If you don't want to be spied on you can get a mage to help you, again whether or not you know one or not.

[Craig210]

I think it would be far better if this spell only told you the location of someone in a vague sense. Instead of simple allowing you to listen on end with great ease.

[Blue41]

If you're going to spy on someone, the most viable options at the moment are: hire a rogue, or hire a diviner.
 
If you want to listen in on your enemy's plotting as a rogue, you put in the legwork, find out where they meet at, invest in some potions/gear to ensure that you can stay hidden and hope for the best. Even then, it's a crapshoot as to how much information you'll actually get. Sometimes you learn something interesting, sometimes not. And all the while, your targets are rolling spot/listen checks. It's harrowing, really. Any stalker/assassin knows the feeling of dread of seeing the target you're following stop and drink a few potions, wondering: do they see me? Shit, maybe. Better back off.
 
Eavesdropping diviners cast a spell. DC gets rolled once, and if the target fails, they're golden. The reward is so much higher than the risk.
 
If diviners are caught, then yeah, they've made an enemy. Tough break, but we know how it goes on EfU. If a rogue is caught listening in, then chances are they are going to get subdued/and or killed outright.
 
Why make rogues for your spying needs when a diviner can do it so much better, and at such little cost to themselves? They already have it tough enough.

[you axed for it]

Everyone in the area should get a save, and the scryer should first have to use a tool on someone (which would OOCly signify them taking a lock of hair, or small belonging, or getting permission, etc) before being able to scry said target.

And yes, clerics should also get scrying as a L4/L5 spell.

[Relinquish]

And yes, clerics should also get scrying as a L4/L5 spell.

Better yet, a domain that has it in it. For deities like savras/mystra/azuth/thoth. Or a domain that has it as a lvl4/5 spell and leave scrying for clerics without the domain at lvl6

[Capricious]

Scrying as it works in PnP.

[LiAlH4]

Personally, I find the scrying system on EFU:A to be right up there with the alchemy system in terms of wonderful things about the server. People who are engaging in illicit/secretive activities absolutely should be paranoid that their enemies might be scrying upon them.

Ward Area is a reasonably common counter, and there are some cloaks floating about which cast it. Furthermore, there is a 2-5 ducat counter known as the 'blank scroll'. Used with a writing tablet, it makes a foolproof way to communicate without the mage scrying on you being able to see a darn thing. Other possibilities include going out of range of the mage (taking a trip out to Gull Rocks, for example, to hatch your nefarious plot) and simply not discussing any sensitive information without Ward Area up.

As for dealing with rogues? A potion of clairaudience/clairvoyance is a nearly foolproof ways to spot someone who is hiding near you. So much so that they are actually annoying with how effective they are, despite the short duration.

Long story short, be smart about how you handle your plotting, and you should be fine!