Rangers favored enemy

[Relinquish]

Edit Addendum: +3 ab/dam at level 9 is still very, very good. That's not an absurd or unreasonable alteration

I was only aware the change to FE here is the AB bonus, all the other bonuses are +1 per 5 levels???

[TheDarkMoon]

Do note- FE human can be beat, I recently did it- So it isnt really that OP just when every ranger takes it- you just now know, they are more mechanicaly minded then rp minded.

[Egon the Monkey]

Exactly, there's no Win Build on EfU. I don't see how it's any more OP than rage in most fights anyway. +2 damage is on a par with Weapon Spec and more limited as it's to race of target, which you don't control, not weapon armed, which you do. The AB is good yeah, but I'd hate to see it nerfed as it's one of the great reasons to play a ranger in that it compensates for low stats. You can have 12s and 14s across the board and be dangerous. Not to mention that the +ab really helps you stand a chance as a shooty PC using stuff like Rapid/Called shots.

Perhaps a better change would be to cap the FE AB to something like 2 +/- Int Modifier, to cut down on powerbuilds. Int also makes sense in that you're coming up with cunning ways to fight said enemy.

I don't understand the hate disdain on taking it, TBH. It's not "better RP" to take a FE you never get the chance to RP, or take a nonsensical FE ("I am a military scout Ranger who fights soldiers, whoops better take FE Aberration").  What feels off is rangers who don't do any scouting or tracking, and appear to have built themselves purely to crush duels by using FE in unbuffed fights.

Summing up, I've always thought it's better to reward people who take a weaker choice for a good reason, than to nerf a popular thing and catch the normal PCs as well as the unforgivable crushbots. EDIT: Actually, in that way, FE Human rangers and +vs Human gear serve as a bonus to taking a nonhuman playerrace.

[Howlando]

I don't understand the hate on taking it, TBH.

I think it's a bit dramatic to call it "hate."

Allow me to quote the only DM comments in this thread -

I do believe there should be a rationale behind your favored enemy. Understand this is my personal opinion, not that of the DM team.

But right now it is done for one reason and one reason alone. Mechanical superiority in PvP.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter. But I am curious to hear some thoughts.

And myself.

But significant and sustained focus to justify whatever you choose is important, in my opinion.

Of course, I don't mind the abundance of FE Humans, as for me it just makes the exception to that stand out all the more.

Talir -

I'm not as much interested myself in whatever backstory you have for taking the favored enemy, as I have for what you do for it now.

Someone who spent his life hunting and killing goblins but has favored enemy human makes as much sense to me as the trained carpenter suddenly excelling as a computer engineer after graduation.

There are some other good points raised in this thread, as well, but I do find some players can get a bit too over-sensitive when they feel the choices they make are being criticized.

[Garem]

I was only aware the change to FE here is the AB bonus, all the other bonuses are +1 per 5 levels???

Ah, I stand corrected. Not sure why I thought that.

[TheDarkMoon]

Better yet, Make pc's earn thier ab bonus? If they do not show signs of tracking down thier quary of searching to disable thier foes or even, mentioning that they hunt said creature then they should lose thier AB bonus. So people whom just have FE so that they can look pro in duels get slapped in the face.

[Anonymous Bosch]

There's a pretty thin line between promoting good RP and condemning an arguable perception of bad RP.  I recently spoke to a friend IG who was on the verge of quitting over the latter, and may well have followed through if they didn't have the encouragement of supportive players.

My initial reaction to this FE thing was an amused, "holy shit, I've been scolded!"  As this thread grew and I thought more about it, I made the connection between this kind of criticism and my friend. At that point I started to get annoyed at certain attitudes, and realised that there may be a problem.

Everyone plays EfU to have fun, and the standard of RP is consistently very high compared to just about any other server I've been on.  Discouragement, in what is not exactly a rapidly growing player-base, is not a good move when the vast majority of players do put in quite a bit of effort in their own way. [/rant]

Sorry for the derailment, but it's been playing on my mind.  Thought it might benefit folks to think about. >_>

[TheImpossibleDream]

Everytime you kill(not subdue) a favored enemy you gain +1 ab for 1 turn(60 seconds)/level the effect stacks and is capped by your ranger level. Problem solved and even gives more ab for pve(where most fe's work outside of human)

[Staring Death]

Everytime you kill(not subdue) a favored enemy you gain +1 ab for 1 turn(60 seconds)/level the effect stacks and is capped by your ranger level. Problem solved and even gives more ab for pve(where most fe's work outside of human)

Dreaded fate for a ranger with FE: dragon.

[Howlando]

This isn't a thread to discuss mechanical adjustments (which won't happen, for a variety of reasons).

[Egon the Monkey]

I forgot what the original post was about and had to go back and check! One thing I want to check is if Favoured Enemy works against monstrous player races now (I was under the impression the new subrace system fixed it). So will it work on PC orcs, or will you need tt have FE: Half-orc? Also, is there any way that EfU could have Favoured Enemy: Ooze implemented somehow? It's never been an option, but there are a lot of oozes on EfU, and good reason to take it if you want to live in the Bogs or Sewers.

Moving back on to the original topic, how do people decide at L5 once they've already got their defining FE? Whatever you've fought the most on the way to 5? Whatever you expect to fight most on Ymph? Whovever your biggest IC rival is? For example, FE: Elf and Vermin make sense for a Shevarashan Ranger. FE: Animal and Undead or Aberration and Undead for someone who lives in the sewers. But, for a lot there's not a clear second FE.

[Udenbur]

It's as if a wide range of Rangers stands accused here for picking up a FE: Human for whatever semi-reason they can come up with. Since I left off with a FE:Human ranger, I feel obligated to share my pov. As will be the general consensus, all of these players apparently expect to be (actively) involved in PvP with humans (since it's such a dominant PC race). But Favored Enemy can as easily be explained as the race you have the most (anatomical) knowledge about, looking at the bonusses it provides. Most of us jolly human rangers know where to hit a (hu)man to cripple him for life, but a Dwarf's stones may yet be made of iron. Who knows?

It's impossible for 99% of the population to deny that their choice does not derive almost purely from a point of PvP practicality, simple and alone because of the mechanical PvP bonus advantage. If we want to see diversity in the creativity of our community's favored choice, we may yet do well to change the bonusses in a way that they aren't (just) dominant to just specific races.

It's not worth making excuses over.

[Gwydion]

Sometimes the server seems bipolar to me.  

On the one hand, great RP is touted as the ultimate goal that we all strive for.  We have seen many PCs that were rewarded handsomely by DMs for the concept and how they were played.

On the other hand, some players know every stat of the game machine and exploit that with great success, and often dominate the server as a result.  Arcane casters are casting ultravision on their party and using darkness spells, fighters are chucking tanglefoot bags to get their opponent out of Expertise in PvP, and multi-class builds are created solely to utilize UMD or give them access to wands.  

I'm really not making a judgement here.  It's just a bit confusing at times.  

I guess the ultimate goal is to be really good in both aspects, yes?

Maybe the DM staff should make a list of the things that they don't like to see as they are considered cheesy just to make it clear and on the table?

[putrid_plum]

As a human, I know how to kill a human very well... just saying!

[BeteNoire]

You probably know how to kill animals, vermin, or insects pretty well. That doesn't mean you are a dedicated hunter of these things.