Traps on quests

[One_With_Nature]

Take out powerful traps on quests expect maybe at the end of a quest on the last chest etc. Its not fun to open a door on a quest and instantly die. The ones in particular i am refering too are strong electric:

20d6 damage with a dc:26 is not fun. 120 damage will kill most pc's outright and in this low level setting is overpowered and very depressing when you die to one.

[GoblinSapper]

Dying sucks and I feel for you and I HATE to be that guy but...
 
Bring a rogue?

[TheImpossibleDream]

I loath traps in all shapes and forms in quests. There are many that can't even be detected or disabled by a rogue. They just seem like a means to slow down or kill characters for failing a die roll. In particular electric traps. I'd be happier dealing with beholders than traps truth be told.

[Anonymous Bosch]

I agree.  Almost every trap situation in the game can be dealt with by a fighter with a purple crystal.
This kind of situation, shitty as it is to be killed by it, makes rogues an important part of the team, rather than a moderately useful guy it is fine to ditch in favour of another full plate fighter.


edit: agree with goblinsapper, that is... I'm not aware of any unavoidable damage traps that can't be disarmed, but if they're in there that does seem unnecessarily evil >_>

[One_With_Nature]

Incidentally we did have a rogue with us, but you do not expect deadly traps to be placed on doors and you'll find with all quests a rogue is not leading the group forward.

[One_With_Nature]

And using that arguement would bring up the question why can't pc  rogues use them then?

[Twelve]

you'll find with all quests a rogue is not leading the group forward.

 
Why not?
 
A trapspringer - leading the party, and scouting out traps and enemies seems like a great idea IMHO. Good RP stuff too.
 
I know it's not the same as 6 heavy armors running through the entire quest with no talking, rp or heavy breathing, but it's fun too.

[Craig210]

I dont know, this whole thing seems a little too.. whats the word... Mechanical?

[Caddies]

lol

[12 Hatch]

I can understand the frustration behind what happened.  Removing deadly traps isn't a good idea, in my opinion, because it does render trapspringers rather obsolete.

However, having some kind of in-character clue leading up to especially an impassable trap like one on a door might be nice (I.E. the deadly fire trapped door has scorch marks near it, the deadly electric trapped door has a crackling SFX, etc.).

I'm not sure whether that situation you were in had any such IC clues or not, but especially a deadly trap that's isolated from other traps leading up to it ought to have some additional indicator.

Although, I will say, the odds of getting above 100 on a 20d6 roll are pretty slim.  You're going to average 70 which, while still very steep, is at least survivable by a high level warrior.

[Egon the Monkey]

That's the *average*. Which means shall we say 30-40% of the time it's enough to easily fry a mid level warrior class through insulation. Remember, not every frontline PC is a barbarian of the max level capable of doing the quest, and electric traps have both the highest damage AND the widest range of any trap. They can go through all the goons and kill the wizard standing way at the back. Saying "bring a rogue" is silly if there's no rogues to be seen. I'm all for optional areas with locked doors and trapped chests where a rogue (or trap specialist) lets you get MORE out of a quest, but not areas where it's "high disable trap or TPK",

Sure, you can send summons onto every door just in case, but on this particular quest there's now mid to high grade lightning traps all over the place, and I ran into deadly ones on two other quests (in one case I literally ran into one due to bad pathing and got fugued straight through Insulation). For this quest, electrical is flavourful, but it would be better limited to minor ones in more places than the odd WHAM-Dead trap.

The interesting and challenging traps are the ones that make combat more difficult by Slowing you, draining your stats, splitting the party, stripping your invis etc. They're dangerous as they let the enemies mess you up, but they don't blow your head off because you didn't have Class X in your party. It's a bit like having enemies that will only die if you're under Bard Song, or they get punched by a Monk.  Stun traps for example are dangerous as they incapacitate a PC, but you can react to them by healing and supporting the victim. Direct damage that can one-shot most of a party is just frustrating. Heads or tails, live or die.

I know it's not the same as 6 heavy armors running through the entire  quest with no talking, rp or heavy breathing, but it's fun too.

 A team inching forward in a paranoid manner because they OOCly know Doom Traps are out there but couldn't get a trapper isn't much fun either.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Something that gives a hint you're about to walk into a potential insta-death trap is definitely a good idea.
Personally not against occasional situations where a team with no trap disabler is forced to retreat.  Lord knows there are lots of quests that are nigh impossible without some sturdy melee types.

[Egon the Monkey]

it's a lot easier to round up melee-types than a good trapper, there's more of them and more classes for it. Also, ubertraps only force you to retreat IF you know it's an ubertrap. Usually it goes something like this:

Watch Out For The Trap What Trap Oh F*** We Are Dead.

It's better to have bonuses for bringing a specialist PC (more payoff/less healing used from running over irritating traps) than meaning you HAVE to have a particular build (stealth trapper)  to do quests unless you want to get fugued. A few quests actually have this, side rooms that you need to break into  but give sweet loot if you do. Otherwise it's a big benefit to the sort of smashteams who have their pet rogue/monk/druid/whatever class you need, and a kick to anyone wanting to try higher level quests rather than Spam Trogs.

Traps aren't bad on doors if the doors are locked and pickable though. That gives you a hint it's probably well defended, and slows you down enough that someone will detect the trap while it's being unlocked.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Thing is, I dig rogues.  They've got a ton of great skills that are sadly underappreciated because they aren't needed most of the time, and when they are needed all the little rogues are so happy to be asked for help that the smashers and bashers can still carry on disdaining the poor sods.

I get what you're saying, Egon, and extra benefits for bringing rogues is great.  My ideal situation would be random situations planted into any quest where you'd have a deadly trap gauntlet to run, with a subtle warning along the lines of a sign that says "Extreme Danger: Deadly Traps Ahead".  Make it so that most of the time a crew won't need a rogue, but they know they might.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Why not?
 
A trapspringer - leading the party, and scouting out traps and enemies seems like a great idea IMHO. Good RP stuff too.
 
I know it's not the same as 6 heavy armors running through the entire quest with no talking, rp or heavy breathing, but it's fun too.

In the olden days before efu came to be this was how an adventure would go. You would go into the quest area. A rogue would go on ahead, you would wait about 15 minutes for the initial report, he would tell you he disabled two traps and there are 15 orcs in the next room.

You would go in, kill the orcs, then the rogue would go on ahead. The quests themselves were very small, but basically took about 2 hours a pop due to requiring a rogue to scour the entire area for fear of instant death traps.

On occasion you would have to cancel the quest because the rogue accedentally tripped a trap and killed himself, or worse missed one and the entire party died.

I can never recall having much fun waiting in silence for a rogue to report back. Mind you I'm sure it was fun and exciting for the rogue knowing that he could instantly die if he takes a wrong step or an enemy makes a spot/listen check.

What I'm saying is you speak of something you've never experienced and in thoery it sounds fun, but it isn't, it's boring, incredibly boring. Ten times worse than wordlessly smashing through a quest. In fact the only difference is there are a few words traded in order to relay tactical data. Which is hardly what you could call exciting stuff after the 3rd run through the quest.