Rogue Perk Masterthread

[Garem]

Well, the purpose is both to add mechanical benefits while adding flavorful specializations for your Rogue. Its a win-win.

I also thing getting some scimitar feats is fine if you lose stealth/sneak attack, from a balance point of view.

Anyway, it seems the suggestions are popular with most players and Howland as well. Hopefully one of the busy scripter DMs can add these to his list!

Totally missed the part about removing sneaks. Having read that, I agree, it seems fine. If that can be done at least.

[Dr Dragon]

I personally think earning free Patricianship via perk is rediculous.

Patrician is supposed to be earned by the following.

1 4000 gold

2 Friendship with a noble

3 Patriotism that gets a Duke or noble to notice you.

The idea that a pure rogue can just take a perk and gain something equivalent to 4000 gold or the blessing of a noble out of thin air is ludicrous.

[9lives]

Of all the perks to get up in arms about? You could say the same thing about skeleton in the closet.

These are sweet. Could do with some tinkering.

Someone tell Johannes these are for wizards and they will be added.

[petey512]

I've decided not to take my rogue perk until these implemented.

[Seanzie]

Well, being a patrician in the setting isn't like a giant deal and mechanically it's not either. So I believe its perfectly fine. And maybe you have to app for it when you take the perk?

[derfo]

Overall good ideas. Duelist, Magekiller, and Swashbuckler seem pretty weak to me, though. I would like to see some current or new ones that offer armor or shield proficiency. One with a focus on poisons would be cool too, since that seems to be a rogue themed thing.

[AKMatt]

When I first read this, I missed that swashbuckler didn't have opportunist feat like thug and master duelist.  It seems like a really fitting feat for a swashbuckler to have.

[Porkolt]

Overall good ideas. Duelist, Magekiller, and Swashbuckler seem pretty weak to me, though. I would like to see some current or new ones that offer armor or shield proficiency. One with a focus on poisons would be cool too, since that seems to be a rogue themed thing.

In that case you could just as well make a dex fighter.

[gab1]

These are all really strong increases, i'd support any of them if they were toned down a little bit.

Rogue isn't weak per say, they are a support class, like wizard.

A cats graced rogue with ranged weapons is not that weak in combat. Plus they already have the 'mage killer' feat of sneak attack. At level 7 a rogue could easily kill a mage in one turn or less with a lucky roll. (which is like instant death, really)


Anyway, i like them all. Thanks for typing this all out.

[Spiffy Has]

In terms of PvP, Rogues are horrible.

[Garem]

@Gab1:

Rogues can be exceptionally good against certain targets, sure. Yet any real preparation on the part of that wizard and the rogue is screwed. The same isn't true for most other classes. It's not the rogue's strengths that make them less powerful, it's their significant downsides! Low HP, moderate AC on a server where anything less than 25 on a quest is death in a matter of a few rounds, moderate AB, and low fort and will saves (most important for PvP, arguably).

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Anyways, I suggest to future posters that if there are specific balance concerns with any individual suggested perk, they be put into a new thread! For general concerns, place them here.

To start out, I was thinking about the -50 H/MS that many of the perks provide. That seems rather strange. Even with camo and OwN magic, Empowered Cat's, and +15 stealth from items you get up to single digit negatives. Crippling stealth skills to, say, -10 apiece so that those perk groups are on par with other classes that would CC stealth skills seems more appropriate. Mind you, CC'd classes can have 5/5 stealth at level 9 and these perk characters would still be at a meager 1/1 in skill points alone. That way they could never compete with normal rogues or rangers (or CC'd investors, for that matter), but they'd still be able to do some stealth by investing in it with potions, items, and tons of skill points.

[The Crimson Magician]

i agree garem

[SilentSouth]

I would personally add these myself if i knew how to.

[derfo]

Bump, still think poisoner would be a cool addition too

[12 Hatch]

These look pretty awesome.  A cool way to add a little flavor to a class that's woefully underpowered!

Even if some perks do end up a bit overpowered, at most they'll make rogues somewhat comparable to wizards, rangers, etc.