Good Aligned DM Faction

[Black_TopHat]

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You insult my job sir! I SHALL DUEL YOU! =)
 
 
But in all seriousness I do agree with Wrex. Steroetypes have their place. I don't think we should go from steroetypes to everybody being a bland neutral shrugging kinda character (which I personally see as the oppositie of cliches/strongly defined)
 
But I deviate way too much, I'm putting far too much of my personal feeling into this but I can't play Good OR Evil characters without falling into the sterotype role. Becuase when i hear "Paladin" I hear and see stereotype. When I hear "Blackguard" I see and hear baby eating stereotype.
 
And yes, I didn't think this post out at all, I'm rambling

[Egon the Monkey]

It's more that although a cliche Evil Pc can go far, especially a cliche tyrant or sycophant, there's a distinct difficulty in rising a Good PC tot he same level without having to compromise a lot. So you have a lot of grey areas in Good concepts, but playing Evil's a lot simpler and the law/setting protects them to a good degree. And now I want to play a splatterfest lunatic Urdlenite again...

[Letsplayforfun]

Wrex's nailed something important though. Playing evil characters is at no cost when you do evil stuff. But playing a Good pc is at no benefit in comparison, since evil pcs get along quite well. Hence the trend of evil guys and the neutral trend of good faction. I'll give it a thought, but carebear factions aren't great, usually, either.

[gab1]

I think this is the point DrD.  Of all the "good" factions you listed, the only one around is the Order. And, let's face it.. it may technically be "good" but most of us see it as Neutral at best.

I think, and I could be wrong here, the original post was about giving those that prefer to play the "good" guys at least some option to join a Faction other than the Fanatical view the Order has.

The Fleet of First Bolt is an excellent example, it was just starting to really take off, when it was 'shut down'.

The Black Pins never really got a fair shake as the DM in charge had RL reasons not to aid them.

The Pallid Masks got outed when the Conclave created the shield.

Now yes, you can play a good guy in the Sons though I remember not long ago a DM stating that it is not what the Docks was meant to be or the Sons for that matter.

You can also play good in the Concalve, though when I was in it, and was good aligned PC it was less painful to beat your head against a wall. (Lots of 'evil' guys in at the time.)

So, there is no place that your 'average' good guy can go and find a home.

Just my .02.

I lied, i came back to respond to this. lol This is basically what i was saying, someone with aspirations for goodness might have a difficult time finding kin. This is what PC factions are for, and i totally agree, but sometimes certain PC's don't join, or are preoccupied at the time, 'the stars don't align.' This happens with DM factions as well, and there are some with less people than others.

That's why i'd be more supportive of a DM faction where sometimes, for example, the comforting feeling of having some NPC prescence, whether it just be a mere sending, knowing that some segment of the game population agrees with you. There's also the 'guiding hand' of the DM which makes the players feel comfortable and happy. This is obviously time donation to you guys, and it's a suggestion.

I just think some sort of noble protector organization (maybe church of Ilmater break off, or something like that) would really add more dimension to the world. While still obviously (considering this hypothetical organization) causing huge conflict against the Stygians, and maybe lesser against the Numinous, and all the factions really, especially if they were situated in the Docks. I think it would be interesting, aiding the Docks, uniting (or being embattled) with the Sons, i would imagine.

[Random_White_Guy]

Alright, time for a rant.

I think the trouble is people keep trying to qualify it as "Good" and "Evil".

Evil is, yes, more rewarding on EFu. That's because it's multifacited and diverse and people take a lot of huge chances.

Not to be negative, and yes I do agree there's not much DM Faction home for "Goodly folk", but at the same time EFU has kind of a trend of goodly folk.

Proactivity as a good guy is hard. Damn hard. Dare I say one of the hardest things about such a grey world like EFU. Yet people say "It's not just about being big, and bad like Evil. Or having awesome world domination plans, like evil."

But that's the thing IT IS

Good guys can get together and scheme and plot and do business just as much as evil can. Good guys can get together and try to take over the world, just as evil can.

Look at the Canon Harpers. A good example. Sometimes grey but mostly good.

Merchants, Politicans, Businessmen, Soldiers, Guards, and more, all coming together for one solid goal: To stick in the side of Evil like a thumbtack and never let them get an inch. There's some next level shady shit going on, certainly, but that's why they're CG not LG.

I bet you, 100,000$ a group like that could flourish on EFU, As a PC faction even, without any DM support.

Good guys can lie, cheat, steal, fight, plot, scheme, and more just like the bad guys can. They just do it for different reasons.

The trouble is a lot of times on EFU, Protactive is judged as a belt-notch of how many PCs you kill in a duel, or in wide scale, interconflicting PVP. That will always benefit evil. PCs just have to shift the way they look at good.

Example: Ironmantle. Let's be frank. Dude was a Tyrant. A law loving, LG, Tyrant. Like most paladins are. He got into politics. He got into raising an army. He got into enforcing laws. He got into busting heads of those who didn't follow those laws.

Until Good isn't seen as "CRUSHING EVIL", it's not gonna work. And frankly most "CRUSH GOOD GUY" is a pretty weak and often very swiftly killed PC Concept for an evil PC.

Anything Genteel Jim did, a good guy could have done. Just with less murder, throwing beatdowns and more around the docks with a Gang of tough good guys. Anything Bartemis did, a Lawful Goodly cleric could have done by getting into the streets and amassing followers and spreading the message of good and smiting and crushing the evil. Anything Yekal, Makumbo, Ogreribbit, The Rot Cultists, The various evil Lycanthropes, Anything Drayden, anything any one of any of the "Big Evil PCs" did.

A good guy could have done. It would have been done differently of course. But they could have done it.

Good in DnD is not always sunshine and butterflies and carebears. Good in DND, and particularly in EFU is "I can do everything you can, but I do not need to do it your way."

The Paladin who spares a criminal he beats down, who swears an oath to try and redeem himself. He keeps a list of those who have made these oaths. He makes regular trips around to check that these oaths are being upkept, and have a faction of spies and informans and otherwise who keep him appraised of the status of these oaths.

Could do the exact same thing that Iman is doing right now that has the server so massively shaken up. Without murder.

It's just how you look at the server, how you are proactive, and how you want to implement your "Goodness".

[gab1]

By the way, i agree also that evil should be more rewarding, it's kind of the same way in real life. It's kind of like an inevitable tide, and i like that about this server.

[Wildlings]

I agree with all that has been said.  Good needs to be proactive instead of reactive.  This tends to be the major downfall of most "good" concepts.

Having played a spying, manipulative, scheming good guy, I can say it is great fun, but again, you get very very little support.  Why.. because it's not the "BIG" moves that most see.  It's not the larger than life big bad threatening to slay all that do not bow down to (enter name of god here).

But, again we get away from the topic.  Yes, PC factions have come and most noticeably gone that were 'good' in base.  But, again this is the problem with PC factions.  Kill the leader and it just sort of falls apart.  Now this is not exclusive to just good.. we see it happen with most player factions.

I would not say that all of the factions are made for evil, Neutral is by far I would guess the most common.  But, if we look at the history of those factions, the Sons, Stygains, and even the Conclave, I would bet most of us would walk away saying "evil" or neutral at best.

The Black Pin's had an excellent concept. A faction to fight against the current Leaders of Ymph and Old Port.  They were not the 'in your face' good guys, as it was not what they were meant to be.  They pulled strings, worked quietly to see evil underminded.  At least that was the concept, sadly it never got to see it's true potential.

Personally I would love to see a DM decided to bring something like this about.  Something that those of good can rally around without having to fight upstream in your own faction.  Something that could give the people something to rally around on occasion and fight for and with.

[DangerousDan]

It's worth noting that Order Law as it stands was written by Ironmantle, a LG Paladin. RWG also raises valid points; there is plenty of room to be Good on the server, people very rarely seem to be able to organise or plot as well as evil does.

[Capricious]

I think there's a bit of a misconception with regards to the Order. The fact is, the faction has been proactive rather than reactive. This is what LN-LG aggression can look like when the law is on its side, especially considering this is a fantasy setting with medieval roots (EfUA adheres to a darker version of this than is canon FR as well). As a result it appears extreme or even "evil" to our much more liberal perception of things.

[Kinslayer988]

I think that there should be a secret good faction that takes people who are doing grand acts, getting things done, and banding them together.
The faction would be good only could house outlawed good pcs and give them all the power to achieve goodness for the isle as well as person goals.

[Random_White_Guy]

The trouble with "Secret" is it tends to preface "Slow", "Gradual", and other words like that. PCs who look for Good to step up want to see some public, championic workings. Yes it puts a bigger target on your back but it it also gets the heart lifted.

If another DM Faction of good guys came around I imagine it would be more public.

[Kinslayer988]

I see what you mean RwG. I had planned to try and make a Paladin of Siamorphe next. I remember you talking about shadey good aligned factions but the hardest part about paladins is they only fit with Crusader Player faction as they usually wouldn't agree with Order, Sons would call them pussies, Stygians are too evil and Paladins have to work with evil constantly with little support.
This is one of the things that has been discussed on this thread.

[Wildlings]

I think there's a bit of a misconception with regards to the Order. The fact is, the faction has been proactive rather than reactive. This is what LN-LG aggression can look like when the law is on its side, especially considering this is a fantasy setting with medieval roots (EfUA adheres to a darker version of this than is canon FR as well). As a result it appears extreme or even "evil" to our much more liberal perception of things.

 
Yes, the order is 'good', but it is fanatical.  The only that will truly be accepted are those that believe what the others believe. Now that is not a bad thing.  But, it is not something that Joe Blow the Tymorian C/G bard would fit in with.  Or the L/N Lathanderite, or any number of others.  It is a distinct flavor for certain types of players.
 
Again I don't think this thread was meant to bash or down play the existing factions.  It was simply stating that there is a lack of 'good' factions.  Or factions that 'good' would not feel like they are fighting an uphill battle 24/7 in their own 'home', or that they have to follow a certain diety/ belief system.  
 
One that is open to a wide range of concepts, where a predominately good character could find a home and feel like they have some back-up.

[Nightshadow]

General faction alignment: TN(With Lawful Tendencies).

However, nearly every alignment of a PC can find a place in the Order, with the right concept.

The Order is not good, it is TN, with lawful tendencies. Not even good tendencies. Truthfully, I find that the Order balances good and evil very well, and comes to fit quite well into their TN faction alignment (they work to stop the end of the world... but they also subject people to horrible, painful deaths and generally have a lack of respect for those who don't worship their gods).

[Porkolt]

Stop determining what alignment a faction is according to a tendency that was determined before the faction had even had PCs to define it.

I think it's pretty stupid that all the players in here who don't play in the Order are the ones having a hard head while there's a whole bunch of players in here who were or are in the faction, who all say that the faction's outlook is LG with heavy neutral tendencies.


If you're so eager to define the Order as a bunch of semi-evil, ruthless murderers, by all means, make such a PC and see if it'll roll.



The Order is a secretive and closed faction as far as their beliefs and justifications are concerned. Even when you're in it can be difficult to grasp. Please don't judge based on a few appearances.