Good Aligned DM Faction

[gab1]

You're wrong there, Paladins =/= Celestials. They are men and they are faillible. If they are faillible, then they can make mistake like everyone and if such a mistake leads to their death, it doesn't mean other people who punish one for that mistake are 'evil'. They're simply 'lawful' as in following a code very closely.



This whole topic smells of OOC grievances over IC events. Since you didn't assist to their death or the events that led up to them, you may not be the best judge of our faction's alignments based only on rumors. Our factions contain many NPCs each with their own profile and agenda.

By the way man, no this was not in any way OOC grievances, in fact, im quite satisfied with the way things are going with my character.

I'd totally disagree with you about killing Paladins being a 'non-evil' act. I'd always taken that morality in FR is cut and dry and if i was a DM, i'd totally disagree with you, but i respect and understand.

[Dr Dragon]

There has been plenty of good aligned factions.

 Palid Mask

Blackpin slayers

the Old Numinous Order.


Though in Sanctuary we had

Seekers (which was not for paladins)

Greycloaks/New Dunwarren (dont think these were DM factions though.)


Also I would say that this has been done to death. All the time  I have heard "Oh Dms love evil pcs" Ironmantle a paladin was made a lord so if good aligned PCS truly wanted to they could amount to Lordship as well.      

In my opinion the problem with good aligned PCS is that they aren't doing enough smiting.

[gab1]

And by the way, i'd definately say i'd 'assisted' in the events that led up to the various events we're talking about.

Anyway, it's okay to disagree, i actually like to hear other peoples opinions, and have no intention in arguing.

[gab1]

And in response to what Mort said about fallibility, just to clarify my own position. I compare a Paladin to a child, that, yes they are both fallible, capable of both evil and lawlessness, but they are both also innocent and sacrosanct to the Gods, and any morally guided people.

Yes, a child can be doing stupid things in someones IC opinion, but does killing them for their lawlessness not equate to at least some degree of evil. I'd say that Paladins are more sacrosanct and holy than even children, in the eyes of the Gods, and i always try to represent that when i DM or etc.

Also, the IC cold heartedness to kill someone like a Paladin (or child). Doesn't this equate at some level to evil? (as i feel it does in RL as well as my roleplaying exploits)

[Egon the Monkey]

Not at all. A Paladin could see you hanging near Evil people, assume you're an ally of them, and come at you with his sword as he tries to kill Bob the Necromancer. You promptly kill him in self defence. Not an Evil act. Or the Paladin thinks that cannibalism is evil and declares he will capture and "redeem" Stargazers. You're a Stargazer. You kill him to protect your way of life. A Paladin of Siamorphe is involved in a war, and you serve an opposing Lord as a soldier. You shoot him, it's war. Not an Evil act. See, that's just two examples.

[Mort]

One has responsability over his action while the other is innocent through and through. Paladins can fall from grace, like any other PC can.

Anyway, you say you dont have grievances, but this whole topic is filled with passive aggressive judgment about that situation.

[gab1]

I truly in my heart of hearts am not in any way OOC feeling maligned or unhappy (except maybe by the fact that some characters i enjoyed are gone, but that is disconnected OOC)

I'll butt out and let you take the floor. Just my opinions though, saying what is on my mind.

I'll conclude that i am giving my opinion of how i would act if I was DMing, and what i would implement to make the game more enjoyable for myself (as that's all who i can really speak for).

[Wrexsoul]

This topic is interesting though, and it would be sad to see it fall down the pipe of "discussing specific IC events and eventually get locked". Could we stop discussing that particular paladin death, and go back to focusing on the original topic? :)

[mucka1916]

Any action on the server by -any- character can be taken as justification to kill another. Opposing gods, fighting alongside the wrong people, talking to the wrong people, simply not getting involved... The Order for example has it's own code and ethics on how to keep itself protected to do the greater good. Every decision though can be nit picked over whether it was actually evil or not.

Killing when there is no option is neutral. It's not a good or evil act. Killing when there's an alternative is evil. Allowing free when you could kill is good. To simply state this takes out too many variables. What if Legenis did plan to release H'bala? What if Oisin did mean to kill Snow? Too many "what ifs" can leave the lines blurred. Some could state the Conclave is good aligned because they try to keep the peace. Some the Sons because they oppose tyranny and slavery. The Stygians with their sense of honour in battle.

Depending on the viewpoint of the character and the player any faction really could be classed as good aligned, neutral or evil. Seldom is there a definate description of what -is- good because the character has to develop that for themselves. Just like in RL where war and death can and is justified in certain situations.

[Letsplayforfun]

The problem isn't the factions, it's that people are always playing Evil characters.

And good characters that don't band up together efficiently or that are more mouthy than active.

There's room for good people in all factions, especially the Order, and there's nothing preventing Good PCs joining the Armada to try to change the LE-slaver branding they've developped.

[Wildlings]

There has been plenty of good aligned factions.

 Palid Mask

Blackpin slayers

the Old Numinous Order.


Though in Sanctuary we had

Seekers (which was not for paladins)

Greycloaks/New Dunwarren (dont think these were DM factions though.)


 

I think this is the point DrD.  Of all the "good" factions you listed, the only one around is the Order. And, let's face it.. it may technically be "good" but most of us see it as Neutral at best.

I think, and I could be wrong here, the original post was about giving those that prefer to play the "good" guys at least some option to join a Faction other than the Fanatical view the Order has.

The Fleet of First Bolt is an excellent example, it was just starting to really take off, when it was 'shut down'.

The Black Pins never really got a fair shake as the DM in charge had RL reasons not to aid them.

The Pallid Masks got outed when the Conclave created the shield.

Now yes, you can play a good guy in the Sons though I remember not long ago a DM stating that it is not what the Docks was meant to be or the Sons for that matter.

You can also play good in the Concalve, though when I was in it, and was good aligned PC it was less painful to beat your head against a wall. (Lots of 'evil' guys in at the time.)

So, there is no place that your 'average' good guy can go and find a home.

Just my .02.

[Black_TopHat]

One of my PERSONAL enjoyments out of EfU is the grey that covers anything.
 
Your stereotypical good organizations are in a grey shroud, recacting and acting like real people instead of a sterotype of shining knight with a white horse. It give the server real flavor and body, very similar to some of my personal favorites of writers like Dan Abnett or George RR.
 
Not to get too preachy or wordy (because jeez, look at my post count, I CAN'T have an opinion yet!) but the concept of good and evil should be left up to the individual players to determine.
 
I'm sure this will cause a shit storm indeed but I wanted to throw in my two cents

[Craig210]

Efu has had many good aligned factions.

Black Harpers- Secret faction basically the good version of the rubies.

Pallid mask, More the superman of the good side of things, sticking to a strict code and focusing on the nightrisers.

The order- More batman than superman in terms of style, they are still a good dominated faction.


The bastion of light(Pc faction).

Yes, the server has a strong pull towards evil, but I've noticed it's more to do with certain flavours and concepts running around at the time. The server bounces between alignments and IMO is rather neutral as a whole.  

If you feel like setting something new up, go right ahead. Thinking outside the box and trying new things is always a sure fire way to make a difference.

If you don't agree with the order's methods, why not make a secretive group dedicated to abducting them and putting them on trial in the name of the real triad not the three and one.

[Wrexsoul]

Your stereotypical good organizations are in a grey shroud, recacting and acting like real people instead of a sterotype of shining knight with a white horse. It give the server real flavor and body, very similar to some of my personal favorites of writers like Dan Abnett or George RR.

I usually don't contribute to threads like this before having properly thought stuff through, but I wanted to share a thought I had on this matter only a little while ago. I haven't really thought this through fully, and it's certainly not a proper argument (not even sure what I would be arguing with or against), but here it is:

The thought I was having is that the server climate is actually swinging so far away from the stereotypical fantasy fiction cliches that it's swinging -past- "realistic" and moving close to an imbalance in the opposite direction.

What I mean is; Standard fantasy cliches attempt to emulate the "perfect" character archetypes in their respective area. It's pretty close to being black and white.

Real life reality is full of moral grey zones, because it's filled with real people. What real people have, though, are real consequences, and these balance the morals and actions of people even though there is no black and white.

Now, what we have here is an emulation of the real-life grey zones, but without the full impact of real life consequences. If you die, you roll a new character, if you fall from grace, that's a cool RP opportunity, if you murder someone, the worst that can happen is that your fictional creation gets put on trial and executed. There are severe, and realistic consequences for morally grey or black acts, but they are, obviously, aimed at our fictional characters, turning them into "neat roleplaying factors" rather than actual, real-life negative consequences.

Thus, I figured that maybe the striving for a total emulation of the real life moral grey zones, with the reality of only having fictional consequences (that are actually often wholly positive for our real selves) is actually swinging the balance of the server into what's more of a direct extreme opposing the "boring cliche fantasy niche", rather than some kind of middle ground.

Well, this turned into quite a rant, and I am not proposing anything in connection with it (especially not anything having to do with trying to add real-life consequences to the game O_o), but as I said earlier I thought of this as a possible reason for why things are the way they are, that might give some insight in how things can be rebalanced again.

Food for thought!

 - Wrex

[GoblinSapper]

^
TL;DR, the Server is swinging away from cliche, yes, and right into the other end of the spectrum, GRIMMMDARRRRKKKK in the future there is only WAHR