Make Sure to Vote !!!

[Madskillsmike]

9lives is trolling. Or so I hope.

There's nothing wrong with a debate either, so long as everyone remains respectful, right?

[Sternhund]

As it is election season, I don't mind a debate. Just keep it civil. Once it gets unruly I'm going to lock this sucker up.


My parents made low income. When I was five I remember living in a small, cramped house with no furniture. We slept on the floor, and my parents would go to work, come home, play with me, and sleep. I can't imagine that was the American Dream for any of us.

Eventually, my parents were able to get out of that slippery slope and now live a comfortable, middle-class life. We could not have done it without the help of my dad's social security, and other governmental benefits. While my parents live well now, and can afford some luxuries, they still work hard. Right now we're trying to start a business, write a book, and find other jobs to keep the income flowing. My dad is now an old man, so it is difficult for him to work longer than three or four hours a day. Yet he continues to work hard every day so I can go to college, and so he can life comfortably.

Those of you who know about me may know that I'm an engineer. I put a lot of work and pride into my education, and it is important for me to be successful in my field. Although I have yet to graduate from my university, I make three or four times more money than my parents through engineering summer internships. The money I make in three hours of work equals a day's work for them, and I am already interviewing for jobs with engineering firms who will pay me over $250,000 annual salary when I graduate. I feel comfortable knowing that I'll live a good life when I'm done with my schooling.

Yet I am a philanthropist. My parents instilled a lot of love and passion into me, and I still hold that today. Next year, I plan to travel to Africa to join a project that my university is conducting. Our engineers will give running water and sanitation to poverty-stricken environments at no cost to them. When speaking with engineers who participated in this project last year, they showed me pictures of African children dancing and playing with running water for the first time. I remember doing this as a child in my backyard, yet when I was little I didn't realize how lucky I was. It was a beautiful thing to see these children experience technology and get away from the horrible living conditions around them, just for an instant. This is something I want to do, and I plan to invest in philanthropy, and maybe I'll join the Peace Corp.

Even though I'll be making over $250,000, I plan to put a lot of that money away into good causes. I felt blessed to have the middle-class life my parents gave me, and I feel that's all I need to be happy. With $250,000, I could travel to different countries every year, buy expensive sports cars, live in a million dollar house, and have many luxuries. Yet would it hurt me to not have a vacation every year, or to drive a normal vehicle, or to live in a middle class neighborhood? I have relatives who are millionaires, yet they have decided to live in a middle class neighborhood because they don't need all the luxuries to be happy. They donate a significant portion of their money to charity. This is a virtue I plan to continue.

Peeper argued that those who make over $250,000 a year will have their taxes raised. He makes them sound like victims of Obama, as they are working to earn that money. While I do not dispute that they have worked hard for it, I know there are people working even harder for much less. These people were once my parents. While they're working seven days a week, my engineering firm will only ask me to work four days a week, and for fewer hours. While some people do hard labor, I'll be in an air-conditioned environment directing a project. Sure, I worked for that money, but am I really a victim? Does raising a tax on my income put a significant dent into my quality of life? No matter what, I'll live comfortably, but will they?

So yes, spread the wealth. What is wrong with this notion? Donald Trump has many mansions, and even an apartment made of gold. If we took away one mansion from him and used it to house the homeless, would Trump's daily life be affected? Probably not, but the world of those homeless people would be warped entirely for good.

My question is this. Do the critics of Obama's tax plan make over 250k? Do they really feel like they cannot spare an extra dollar for their fellow man? What is wrong with socialism? When we were in kindergarten, our mothers and fathers taught us to share. Why can we not share as adults?

So no, it's not Obama's "18 charisma, 20 bluff" that gets to me. It's how his beliefs match my own, and how he wants to help everyone succeed, while John McCain does not offer that. And if we want to talk about bluffing, don't get me started on how McCain has run his campaign.

I'm looking forward to how a McCain supporter will reply to this.

(Related video: http://www.hulu.com/watch/5287/30-days-minimum-wage)

[Xorisai]

I'm uncertain how anyone could take "socialist" as a serious charge.  It's one of the oldest tricks in the Republican playbook - Heck, Goldwater called JFK a socialist.  Most people who respond most negatively to charges of "socialism" or "sharing the wealth" seem to have very little concept of what socialism means, and seem to be unaware that the progressive income tax has been around for quite some time.  Even if Obama is elected and passes his tax proposals, the wealthiest Americans still won't be paying any more than they were under Reagan.

The other argument that rings hollow to me is the one of experience.  Undoubtedly McCain has more experience in government than Obama does, but this is touted like it's a complete argument.  The historian in me asks: is experience actually a predictor of performance?  James Buchanan had tremendous amounts of political experience and was a horrible president.  Compared to other presidents, Nixon and Ford were very experienced; one was a petty grudge-holding criminal and the other was profoundly mediocre.  In contrast, both Roosevelts - often cited as heroes of both parties - had about 10 years of experience between the two of them.  Any way you look at it, there is no statistical correlation between experience and performance, not even a weak one.

Without his "socialist" and "experience" arguments, all McCain really has left is his cry of "Maverick."  But a real "maverick" doesn't coddle the religious extremists he once called "agents of intolerance," or support passing the tax cuts he once opposed, or say he'd vote against his own immigration bill, or make an about face on issues like torture, or commit to running a positive campaign and then turn to an almost completely negative strategy, offering the lame and painfully childish excuse that it was Obama's fault for not doing town meetings with him.  Certainly Obama has made his own reversals, his broken commitment to public financing being chief among them, but nobody has tried as hard as McCain to make an end run around their own record and compromise so many political positions to energize the party base.  In 2000, "maverick" might have been apt, but there's not much of that McCain left - or if there is, his handlers and managers won't let it out.  The McCain I respected then and came close to voting for in 2000 no longer exists.  He is, in the deepest and most profound sense of the word, a sell-out.


I hope everyone will vote, no matter which way you lean.  But I also hope you'll vote based on the candidate's policy positions instead of irrelevant noise, whether it's guilt by association, cheap shots about how many houses somebody owns, or meaningless political catchphrases like "socialism."  If everyone in this country ignored that rubbish and voted for the policies that are best for themselves and for the country, we would be a much stronger community and a better democracy.  Start with your own vote.

[chezcaliente]

I'm not going to enter the debate over the candidates, but I think Stardog captures the spirit of the centre-left "share the wealth" policy which I also agree with.

I would however like to add my voice to "please vote!" and leave you all a couple of links:

Political Compass' Mapping of the 2008 US Election - if you've not experienced Political Compass before, check out the rest of the site and maybe even do the test yourself.

Avaaz.org's For All of Us Campaign - the ad is cheesy, but Avaaz is a great organisation with a commitment to progressive (libertarian social) ideals that resonate strongly with me.

Best of luck November 4!

[derfo]

i agree with squyrl's statement, but would say that obama is a better choice than mccain. i love mccain's automated phone calls to me 3 times a day telling me obama worked with a terrorist or whatever

i found it a suprise that political compass says that bob barr enjoys deaf penalties and is pretty up there on authoritarian

[JackOfSwords]

I don't mind the debating, it hopefully will encourage people even -more- to get out to vote, to ensure their voice is heard!

The 2000 election, as messy as it got, was a wonderful gift.  It reminded us that just a handful of votes can change the course of history.

Don't be a person who, on Nov. 5th, says "I wish I would've gone to the polls, yesterday!"  Be the person that, for better or for worse, is able to say, "Well, I did MY part."

VOTE!  VOTE!  VOTE!

[Meldread]

I was going to jump into the debate, but then I realized that anyone who honestly thinks Obama is a socialist is pretty much dead set on voting for McCain anyway.  Although, I think anyone who actually votes based upon the false allegation of socialism should immediately refund the state the money used to provide them with a public education (assuming they went to public schools).

My favorite get out the vote method is this Moveon.org ad:  http://www.cnnbcvideo.com/taf.shtml?hp=1

It's hilarious.

[Caddies]

i love mccain's automated phone calls to me 3 times a day telling me obama worked with a terrorist or whatever

I don't live in the States. Are you trolling or do you really get these automated calls? <_<

[Xorisai]

I don't live in the States. Are you trolling or do you really get these automated calls? <_<

Yes.  They are called "robocalls."  I haven't gotten any, but only because I live in California, which isn't a contested state.  Presidential politics here is very mean-spirited.  McCain and his campaign officers have defended this practice in interviews.

What's really sad about it is that very similar tactics were used against McCain in 2000, with callers and push pollers calling him a traitor, implying he had an "illegitimate black baby" (he adopted a daughter from Bangladesh), calling his wife a drug addict, and so on.  Those were certainly worse than his present smears against Obama, but it's a shameful practice in general.

[Meldread]

They are called robocalls.

John McCain was a victim of robocalls in 2000 when Bush's campaign, during the Republican Primary, sent out robocalls claiming that he had a black baby.

This time around McCain has hired the same folks who did that to him to go after Obama.  Robocalls are going out claiming that Obama is a terrorist, among other things.

[Dr Dragon]

I have some things to say.......

1 Vote for Obama.

2 How is Obama a socialist when he voted for President Clintons plan to tax the middle class less?


3 It is Socialism to increase taxes to those who dont need it? Such as big corporation and stuff.

4 Mccain last I checked keeps flip flopping on the issues.

5 The war in IRaq is wasting tons of Americas Money meaning yours and mine. It is also wasting the Lives of Soldiers that could be defending our home or doing something more useful.


6 John Mccain had admitted variouse times that he still needs "educating" on ecnomics.

7 John Mccain dosent want to spread the wealth around because many of his friends and himself would have to pay more taxes and he dosent want his friends that work in Greedy corporations to spare some money so that average people can pay less.


8 Obamas 20 bluff? well Id perfer a leader with 20 bluff then a leader with -5 bluff Bush and Mccain both are bad at lieing

9 Mccain has run more negative Obama adds.

10 Last I checked in one week Vp Canidate Sarah Palin spent $150,000 on her wardrobe I think if we elect John Mccain our money will be spent to improve someones outfit.

11 Sarah Palin is crazy.


12 Obama dosent brag about being tortured like John Mccain. I find it shameful that one would keep telling stories of how they got tortured for sympathy.

13 Mccain and Palin are pro life.

14 Palin is crazy and if John Mccain dies I do not want Palin in office.    



-DrD officially Endorses Barrack Obama for this election

OBAMA 08!

[Joe Desu]

While I had written and re-written comments on what I think about the presidential election and how I would vote, I did delete it to get post back on track - get out and vote, but, ...
 
First thing to do is not just look at the presidential election.  Lots of things to decide this Tuesday.  Please do some research before checking yes or no and all those pretty little boxes.  For example, here is a site that has tons of info on the Propositions on the California ballot.
http://citizenvoiceblog.wordpress.com/
 
Actually if you have not done any research should you vote?  Should you blindly take a stab at voting just because you have seen some commercials on TV?
 
Educate yourself then vote, please.

[Wern8]

Why I as an outsider would prefer if Barack Obama loses the US election on November 4th.
 
First, I would like to say that I am basically a fan of the United States of America, its constitution and its founders, but of course I most likely know much less than those who live there and as an outsider it is not quite right of me to comment on this nation's election or so. Secondly, I would appreciate if none of you would troll me or say that I am an unreasonable extremist or maybe worse, because I am truly not one and I do feel that my concern is reasonable and just as valid as yours.

The United States of America has been the greatest and kindest nation/superpower in the history of humanity and now in this current election, many Americans feel that their country is going the wrong direction/has been doing the wrong things in the World and now many would like change; which many of you seem to believe Obama will bring about. I feel that Obama is extremely overrated and I do not believe that Barack Obama or John McCain will change much at all for the USA or worse nothing at all, but I do think that McCain would still be better than Obama and if Obama were to win, the decline of America would be quickened in this time where the World is getting more dangerous.

To quote from C.S. Lewis, "We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive." I think this is very right and instead of radical change, I believe what the USA needs to do is take a turn and return to what its founders envisioned. It should not need to follow the footsteps of Europe and turn more into a Western European country or other First World Countries.

And I would like to add another quote, this time from the Second President of the USA, John Adams- "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." I believe the decline of morality and religion in society is why all these problems in America is here now. While it is true that many of the Founders were deists, they still believed in Christian morality and I am confident that they would certainly not support things like Gay Marriage and Abortion.

I think I cannot go further than I have without causing a mess on this thread and then it would be locked, so I will just add this. I simply hope that the USA remains a unique and special country in the world for a long time and that none of you vote/or be persuaded to vote for Obama due to the fact that basically almost every other country in the world would prefer and love him, especially the Western European ones for I feel that they only want him to win so that America is turned into more of a country like theirs and/or made weaker and also I doubt that they themselves would elect him if he was actually running in their own country. Lastly, I hope that the fall/decline of America as a superpower or as a great country will not happen in my lifetime.

I have certainly many other reasons as well, but it is likely best that I do not say more.

[Caddies]

Oh, lol.

[Sternhund]

Wern8, couldn't one argue the right road is the one Clinton put us on? That's the road Obama is looking at. Is there a better road that McCain speaks of?

Also, Obama is a religious man. He isn't extremist, but he does follow Christian morals. Yet, he supports abortion and gay marriage. I believe it's silly to say the Founding Fathers would be against abortion and against gay marriage when those were issues that weren't tackled then, and when there are lots of christians today who are for those issues.