Ranged Enchantment

[Mort]

If you've ever face 2 Elite Skeleton Marksmen at once, you know bows aren't underpowered <_< And I'm not sure +1 bows which can -decimate- people should be available so easily.

Also, note that even while your character might have a speciality, always using a bow to fight will hopefully never be viable in every situation or it would become extremely silly.

I prefer as is, that you do not need to switch behind weapons, hit and run, etc. And I think improvement to that may ... change the viability of things too much.

Monks were improved because... well... monks! *runs away*

[Egon the Monkey]

There is one popular quest that regularly drops +1 arrows, bolts and thrown weapons, but even that's not that good, when you'll get 99 rarely. Also, there is a crossbow with +1 vs undead, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem to beat DR.

More +

[Gullible Righteousness]

Some DR... is.. special one might say. There is Damage Resistance, and there is Damage Reduction. I'm not sure if they are the same, or one just blocks all sorts of damage. >_>

[Meldread]

Who here remembers the old EfU Staircase quest out in the ruins?  You had to basically stand there and hold off the undead horde.  I remember one time doing the quest we realized that -everyone- in the group were ranged fighters with bows.  We thought we were doomed with no front liners, but decided to give it a go anyway.

We stood back near the stairs and coordinated our shots so that we all assaulted the same one or two undead.  We defeated that quest without a single one of us taking a single point of damage.  We had a blast, everyone was shocked, and we all loved it.

I just thought I'd share that experience, because it was so awesome.  

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue.  I would like to see more +1 arrows drop or they should be sold for something like 150gp - 250gp per stack.  If you build a character around the bow how is it any different than a character built around a bastard sword / large shield, greataxe or greatsword?  It's not often that you see them changing weapons, why should a character designed to be an archer toss aside his bow because his attacks are useless because he can't get a magic weapon enchantment?

[Egon the Monkey]

There is one popular quest that regularly drops +1 arrows, bolts and thrown weapons, but even that's not that good, when you'll get 99 rarely. Also, there is a crossbow with +1 vs undead, but for whatever reason it doesn't seem to beat DR.
Maybe do the following:
Make Purple Crystal and Bludgeoning Arrows drop in stacks of 99, not 1 or 2, and make them drop more, or even SELL bludgeoning arrows/bolts at merchants?
Make more Mighty +1 or 2 bows available? It's in no way overpowering, there are a lot of melee weapons with +1 damage, from daggers to spears to axes.
Oh. One range weapon I do love. Ink Bombs. Darts with an onhit Grease? Brilliant for keeping foes from reaching you. Not so good for PVP though since a Blur just ignores it.

[Xorisai]

Some DR... is.. special one might say. There is Damage Resistance, and there is Damage Reduction. I'm not sure if they are the same, or one just blocks all sorts of damage. >_>

Damage REDUCTION is effective against physical damage and can be overcome with a certain level of item attack bonus.  This is the kind bestowed by blur/stoneskin/etc., and the kind that magic weapon lets you overcome (if the reduction is X/+1; if it's x/+2 or higher you'll need greater magic weapon)

Damage RESISTANCE is effective against a specific kind of energy or attack type (e.g. fire, negative, slashing).  Damage resistance to a physical damage type (slashing, piercing, bludgeoning) can't be overcome regardless of your weapon's attack bonus.  You'll need to switch weapons, or if the resistance is rather low (5/-), do more damage than the creature can resist.  This is the kind bestowed by the endure/resist/protection/energy buffer spells, but only against energy attacks.

Finally, damage IMMUNITY means a creature is immune to some percentage (including 100%) of damage dealt by a specific kind of energy or attack.  A creature with 50% immunity to piercing damage will always take half damage regardless of your weapon's attack bonus.

I won't go into possible spoilers about specific creatures, but weapons with attack bonuses will only overcome the first kind (reduction).  If the target has resistance or immunity to the damage type (piercing, in the case of the crossbow), the attack bonus vs. undead won't overcome the ability.  The three types are often confused because it's not always immediately obvious why your attacks aren't very effective.  Experiment!

[ExileStrife]

+AB on bows goes through DR.   +damage on arrows and mighty doesn't.

[Ommadawn]

I saw the +1 AB vs undead crossbow... very nice. I'd really like to see something similar in bow form. Mmmm.....

[JackOfSwords]

+AB on bows goes through DR?  Hmm... I'll have to try out my crossbow... thought I did, and that it didn't, but will try it again and pay closer attention.

[Garem]

Ahh, then my previous comments were mistaken.

I know range can be devastating when you have an archer line (if you want to have some LOLfun, try a line of 8 people casting cantrips at a target). Even Kazan Rhodes was pretty good when he hit level 6 and got 3 attacks per round. The problem is about damage reduction, which is extremely prevelant. Archers are utterly crippled by a simple blur potion or another form of damage reduction.

Is there some crazy side-effect of allowing archers to enchant their bows (thus, getting +1 AB but not +1 damage) that I simply don't see?

[Egon the Monkey]

"Blur cripples archers"
Hmm. Dispelling Arrows as well as the Dispelling darts? Usable only by Ranger I suggest, as rogues get sneaks which can overpower DR and letting fighters use it would result in more "swap to bow, strip buffs, swap to melee" abuse?

Or, more arrows with onhit effects that stop a meleer reaching in the first place? Yes, I know, tanglebags, but I'm trying to think of archer only kit, that's also less expensive than spamming devices that have maybe a 50% chance to work and cost an attack.
Not grease, blur overcomes it. But, Slow, Tanglebag effect, etc.

Or bows with bonus feat: Called shot? You need damage usually on a bowman, and having Weapon focus, point blank shot and rapid shot is 3 feats already, so you need Human race or FTR levels to consider Called. Yet, as you know if Kobolds hit you with it, -20% movement is a bitch.

Also, Garem's "let's all spam Acid Splash devices" plan was amusing :D.

[JackOfSwords]

Is it possible to make bows that are only usable by those with specific feats?  A bow usable only by those with "Rapid Shot" and "Weapon Focus: xxxx-bow" would make it unlikely to be abused by other classes, as that requires a 3-feat commitment to being an archer.

[Cruzel]

it is possible to script it so the bow will unequip itself if the person does not have a certain feat, yes.


this seems kind of pointless to me, tbh.

Just change the spell to add +1AB to bows.

[Ommadawn]

it is possible to script it so the bow will unequip itself if the person does not have a certain feat, yes.


this seems kind of pointless to me, tbh.

Just change the spell to add +1AB to bows.

I would be more than happy with this.  :mrgreen:

[JackOfSwords]

Not pointless if the fear is that non-archer builds would abuse the availability of ranged weapons that can defeat DR.  I think it keying such a weapon to feats would help keep things balanced.  My main complaint is that if you optimize an archery build, you end up being -too- specialized and unable to effectively assist in a number of quests.  However, flooding the server with ranged weapons that can defeat DR might make things unbalanced if just any rogue/wizard/whatever can use them.