State of the efUnion

[Paha]

The thing I see is this:

If promotions are gained easily, without putting that effort and requirements they currently present, you may notice that suddenly you have high ranking officers without the responsability they should hold with their power.

Higher ranking also weights the person with greater influence and role in the faction. Lower ranking will come to them, instead of DM's first of all, and on daily matters. After that, they go to the DM's and higher ranking NPC's.

Now should this person be somewhat easy going and not up to their role with their activity/standing it may end up being somewhat let down, not to mention their decisions and what not can have much greater effect than normal foot soldiers.

As much as they are OOC requirements, they are just that much IC requirements to see if that guy is up for the job. It ain't easy, but the position you'd be taking is not one given lightly either.

[cmenden]

Players seriously need to stop killing each other -as- frequently and ragequitting/losing interest in their characters and making promotions faster just encourages these things I feel!

I've been doing holiday stuff too, so I'm kinda glad the server isn't careening along at a breakneck pace. <_<

[Never-Again]

My two cents.

- I dont usually play DM faction PCs so I cant comment on them. I will say that with the current system, once a character reaches a high rank in a faction I respect that character a great deal OOC. They have clearly been rocking out the plot / faction goals / ect.

- In regards to plots, I think one of the neatest factors of EfU is the way plots are resolved. There is nothing neat or tidy about it. Actions have consequences and you see that clearly in EfU. An example: Sabuth was defeated, but her remaining forces took over the Dock. It adds to the immersion factor for myself and gives the server a since of a timeline.

[tspawn35]

My biggest gripe is that players will start something and then it won't go anywhere because the player who started the idea gets killed. So then we are left with a plot that someone else was working on that just gets dusted under the rug. I realize that I am griping yet have a character that doesn't really do anything... It's just that people will quit the character really quickly. Some don't even last two weeks...

[Shamtastic]

I do not vote with my feet, nor do I strive to receive DM Loot, promotions, or epic plot involvement. Why? Because I am a henchmen, at best. Sub Par for sure.  I enjoy riding the coat tails of great players, and enjoying a really cool Hobby in the process..unfortunately it is a game to me, and rl never allows much more then part time involvement. The server is  DnD online, as it should be. I will not buy the latest iteration of WoW, no matter how many industry professionals tell me it is grand. Instead, I will vote with my wallet, and donate to our fine server. It is the last day of the year, and to see our server flourish into the next decade, I will speak in the loudest terms possible in our consumer age, CASH. I encourage you to do the same. Our DM Staff and player base is unparalleled, regardless of the issues we have, and the story's told easily rival any of the fantasy novels out there.  Howland and Co have managed to do what every MMO out there has attempted and failed, to make a truly dynamic on line role playing universe.  By comparison, all others have failed. So, give, and give generously, and the State of the EFUnion will continue to prosper.  For those of you who cannot, simply have fun, and enjoy your time here. Don't hate, snipe or rumor monger. Your play is your greatest contribution. We need quality players as much as any resource, and I would say our coffers are well full at the moment.

Happy New Year.

[9lives]

One time I died on a DM quest and you are all basically hitlers

[TheImpossibleDream]

Players seriously need to stop killing each other -as- frequently and ragequitting/losing interest in their characters and making promotions faster just encourages these things I feel!

I've been doing holiday stuff too, so I'm kinda glad the server isn't careening along at a breakneck pace. <_<

If a person is the type of player to quit so fast he can't be promoted in the current system then it's probably likely he would never have been promoted in the first place. It's better this way.

---

With regards to critique of caddies comments:

What I think Caddies meant by "unworthy" players getting loot is that in proportion to thier actions sometimes players find themselves with far stronger loot than thier situation merits.

Here's a very crude not to be taken literally example: Let's say player A is a new player or a player who rarely steps up to the mark and is doing something particularly interesting. Now player B is a veteran doing something equally interesting at the same time.

Player A is likely to recieve better loot than player B, even though they merit equal loot.

This is because player A really needs that encouragement. Player B often steps up to the mark and knows the score. He's going to have the advantage of experience over player A so he really doesn't need as much help anyway.

I'll let caddies correct me if I'm totally wrong here.

I personally think this method works fine.

---

In regard to the initial post I think what Mort said sums it up nicely. This may not have been the best forum to incite actual change. Even if change does come of it.

[Semli]

I was holding my breath until Naga commented.

[Dr Dragon]

Quite honestly I feel that these accusations are old. Since  Old EFU people  have complained and whined about grand conspiracy theories of DMs controlling the server and stopping players from doing so.  I feel that overall Players are the server weve shaped the server and made it what it is today. The conclave was formed by basically a bunch of proactive players quite honestly.While Dms occasionally spice the server with foes/NPCS all and it all it is the players who rule and decide things.

 
Also this whole concept of "Character Success" is an illusion. A sucsesfull character is one you enjoyed playing. Now from my expierience browsing the Stygian forums, the Sanctuary Watch Forums and the Council forums. I can say by and large the server has always been ruled shaped and controlled by Pcs. We the players rule the server and the DMS just construct and write the story that we th e players have created.

[Random_White_Guy]

While I agree with a lot of what Mort said, it's not a private issue. It's a public one. Pc's talk about these kind of things near constantly so I thought i'd step up and play whistleblower of sorts to try and coax them out of private IRC channels and PMs. A fair few folks have come forward who talked to me OOCly about these kinda things so for that I say thanks.

EFU is great, and it's one of those things where you've got the time to spend borderline crackhead time into questing, RPing, plotting, and more it simply shines and sparkles and is everything that is great. I wrote the initial post on a cusp of "About to cut back" so I thought it a fair position to try and stir the pot.

In regards to Nuke's comments that it can be reduced to a single plot thread, no. I like it nebulous and I like it mysterious. It's half the fun of plotting.

The problem is, as a Stygian PC I am berated and  bombarded with "OH MY FUCKING GOD WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE AS PCS BECAUSE OF ". Perhaps it was in bad taste to bring those aspects forward but what's done is done.

EFU is spectacular in a lot of ways, but where it lacks is, as I said, DM factions and Plots.

Orders are rare, and when they are given it's usually "This PC has stepped out of bounds, step in and bring them down". It happened in Underdark, it happens now, it's a sort of constant. My initial post was an request, albeit perhaps poorly worded, for a more coherent and flowing means of dealing with PC and NPCs in a DM faction. It really isn't all that "Orchestrated", organized, guided or otherwise. PCs take initiative and either live or get burned by the choices they make.

Support is given in the form of (At best) being able to enhance and enforce a set of laws set forth by a DM but overall the authority is minimal, and the support/backup is ephemeral at best. It still boils down to levels/gear, which while unkind at times, is a staple of any deed and activity in EFU.

I'm glad this discussion brought on a lot of activity and interest, but honestly- DM factions alot need more DM involvement. As an ex-DM I know it's kind of crass to say since I had a lot of enjoyment and fun working with you guys  but it's fact.

IC support is minimal at best and even then scarce, and IC threats are -massive- for every DM faction. Being a Son in the Docks can lead to instant PvP or worse from Dominion PCs. Same with Stygians and the Docks, and the Conclave and Renegades.

As for plots...It's just...damn.

I'm trying to play a game too, but being in a DM faction and all these numerous "Possible crack the Ziggurat with massive death plots" leads to so many distractions and conflict with PCs that there are times logging in seems like a headache worth avoiding than a fun game to play and advance plots along. PCs seek you out at every turn and after a while it's hard to to keep your "Positive spin" going.

It's a game, not a job. Perhaps I've just become jaded over all the stuff involved but...yeah. This probably could do with a Lock.

[Joe Desu]

Plots
I have found that some plots have resolutions but you need to ask around or look for the information.  Some plots should not be resolved too early.  Faerun shattering plots that ended Sanctuary and started Ymph are not to be rushed.  

Factions
I see no problems at the moment.  I have not been part of any major DM Faction, and will deny being part of any DM faction minor or major.  ;)

Other
People enjoy playing differently, let them.  Some like to power-quest and others like to figure out how to feed the worthless population.  Some know how to down potions so they need no healing in a quest and others haven't a clue how to survive.  We learn from mistakes, we learn from others, and we enjoy our time here.  I spent a few years in the Underdark with no special DM loot to speak of, and never complained about it or worried that I was being too mediocre.

Give peace a chance in the year of the bunny rabbit.
Or
Give a piece to a Bunny girl.
It is all the same.

[The Beggar]

*insert longish, mediating comments here that got axed due to forum time out*

Players, stop assuming. Ask a DM your OOC questions. If they can't answer they'll explain why. Both parties win.

Time is limiting resource. Takes a lot of time to set up plot quests, *Yohannes you awesome, awesome dude you.* and sometimes players lack the IG time to keep a faction going. Sometimes DMs lack the time to push their plot forward the way they want.

Bullet point:

Don't assume.

Ask questions.

DMs can remove time as constraint by running plot furthering mini episodes within scripted quests. (you cut out party formation - easily 30 min, lots of set up time, and foster plot interest in the PCs who didn't know anything about the plot but were along for the ride)

Save the super long quests for when people can get organized in RL to have the time. Spur of the moment 4 hour plot quests are tough on both sides sometimes.

[The Beggar]

Forgot to add my favorite Seasame Street lesson:

"Communication. Makes it happen."

(-IT- was making cookies at the time. Yes, Cookie Monster was able to make his cookies, and everyone enjoyed them because they communicated successfully.)

[Mort]

Well, fine. You needed to voice it publically for a reason that I see as unnecessary and polarizing people on stuff not linked at all with your request. I still agree that probably now and back in the UD, praises from fellow faction members were rare in comparison to possibly fucking up. The bigger the reputation of the organization (Spellguard), the more easily it was possible to fuck up.
 
It was stressful to play in a faction, back then, for me, it is probably the same for now. You feel you have responsability and it is taxing. A ton of people have told me this before when its their faction PC: "I really enjoyed it, but boy was it stressful!" . It's not necessairly implied, but I suspect it is more in a faction you paint with lots of achievement, etc. And yes, factions definitely augment your responsability as a player and, so in turn, take this game away from just being casual.
 
It becomes a LOT worst with promotions, this stress of responsability. The greater a PC becomes, the more stressful he becomes to play to his player. This is true for PC factions, DM factions and just about every great characters/villains in general on the server that everyone knows about.
 
I think this stress is definitely not pathologic or limited to belonging to a dm faction and that yes, ultimately, it makes the game less casual and more like work. It can also be crazy addictive and I guess that's why most people love this game because it doesnt feel 'casual' at all (yet you still have to keep your zen!). I dont think DMs can correct this feeling with anything they do, even if NPCs were to become all smiles and sugar to PC members.
 

PCs take initiative and either live or get burned by the choices they make.
 
Support is given in the form of (At best) being able to enhance and enforce a set of laws set forth by a DM but overall the authority is minimal, and the support/backup is ephemeral at best. It still boils down to levels/gear, which while unkind at times, is a staple of any deed and activity in EFU.

Giving support outside of equipment / XP is very delicate ... I'd rather have it be rare or limited to certain areas / events as I know that people on the other side of the medal who are receiving support AGAINST them will be quick to vow their discontent.
 
* * *
 
Aside from BoM's request to try an off the duke, that's really the only request of NPC possession that I received during the holidays. >_>
 
Maybe people have stopped trying... but I know I wouldn't have mind to give time to a Shaker and Do'er when there was like 6-10 people logged in and not much going on...
 
I think Beggar is spot on with his : Communicate more, just dont let it fall into harassment.

[GoldenArrow]

So, from the Noob corner.
 
I like EfU. This massive plot ADD is fine, by me. Fuck. If I'm not elbow-deep in plot, 90% of the time I am logged in, I think something's wrong. The only reason I want levels is so I'll survive my nefarious scheming. Probably, the hilariously large amount of plottage - PC and DM plottage - is the best part of EfU. This is my opinion. Bear in mind I have been playing for around sixteen days, only.
 
That being said.
 
It is -real fucking easy- to get bombarded with plot. If I acted on every plot that meandered near me, I'm quite sure by now I would have been completely overwhelmed, and probably dead. I haven't been around long enough to see any of them come to fruitation, but I -do- notice PCs die a shit-ton.
 
Look at the docks.
 
SERIOUSLY. When I rolled up Drica, Prince Almshavan was whipping everybody up into a frenzy. Then, mass casualties, then Tambuzi, and now Tambuzi's dead and Hack's on the throne. I can only assume, now that he's there, someone's going to get gunslinger syndrome and pop a medieval cap in him. And then someone's going to cap the capper.
 
I can only imagine what sort of nonsense people could come up with if all of those characters, that just died awesome explosive deaths, had more longevity. I mean, seriously. Almshavan had some serious awesome support behind him. Did he really, really have to die? What would have happened if Tambuzi's player - and then Hack's player - had got behind him? It would be a different server altogether.
 
I really tried to do some banner-waving myself, and recruit some folks for something, but only two folks showed up. So, you know what I did? I hitched my wagon to someone else's train. Trim sails, and survive, as opposed to flaming glorious death.  Became someone else's watchdog, and that's its own sort of fun.
 
So, +1 for 'Too many chiefs, not enough Indians'.