A thought on PVP

[Diz-e]

Is it just me, or isn't PVP supposed to be initiated, no, agreed upon, OOC before it happens IC? Please share your thoughts here...

[Oroborous]

PvP is something that should be done IC.

If you want to make sure someone OOC agrees, that's really kind of you.

Personally, if I'm going to PvP you, I'll have likely made it clear to you IC already or your PC has gone out of their way to get on my PCs bad side.

[ShiftingAllegiances]

It is nice when you can but no, OOC agreement is not nor should it be needed. As Oro pointed out, it is an IC situation. Some examples where it is clearly unwise to alert someone OOC of PvP would assassinations or any surprise attack. In addition, even normal face to face PvP probably should have enough markers to point to the onset of PvP in the near future.

[Badandexiled]

I really have to go back to the idea that, as I recall, made rather clear in the server description also.

This is rather hardcore roleplaying server, it may not be fit for newest persons, but it isn't overly hard either. It has also been said that pvp is a daily part of life, and you should be prepared to reap what you sove, so to say.

If you're asking to get stabbed, you may just get it. I don't expect anyone to make it clear OOC that I am going to get owned. I'm sure I've seen it coming IC for a reason or another.

[Jayde Moon]

If you're not being griefed, CvC (or PvP) is probably something you brought on yourself.  Forcing an OOC agreement ends up becoming a 'Asshole Shield'.

You act like an Asshole and then when someone says, "Hey, I'm gonna try to FD you, cool?" you go, "Um, no... NOT cool.  Duh!"

Folks get plentyof warning.  All you need is the two seconds between seeing "So and so dislikes you".  That's more warning than many would get if the situation were truly IC.

[Metro_Pack]

It's just you.

[Nihm]

If you're not being griefed, CvC (or PvP) is probably something you brought on yourself.

Absolutely wrong.  Its entirely possible to be robbed or sacrificed by someone you never heard of.  Its possible to be attacked for something absolutely paltry you wouldn't think twice about saying or doing or because you have something somebody else wants.
If you want specific examples I will provide them, though it will likely be construed as "being a whiner" so I'd rather not.

[PanamaLane]

Sometimes you do just get mugged or sacrificed or whatever, but its a rarity. Typically if you're in PvP, you've done something to put you there.

I know the one time where that has been an exception in my whole of EFU, and I was just murdered randomly, the DM overseeing actually gave me the opportunity to respawn afterwards. Granted it was under another login name, and had he known it was me, I'm sure he'd have just brought out the popcorn instead.

[Jayde Moon]

If you're not being griefed, CvC (or PvP) is probably something you brought on yourself.

Read the statement carefully before attacking it.  I didn't say it is always something you brought on yourself.  Do not work with absolutes, my friend.

In my opinion, which you are perfectly allowed to think is stupid, someone randomly and totally out of the blue just mugging your PC is griefing.  It may not be griefing beyond the threshhold of negative OOC repercussion, but it's griefing.

Do keep in mind though, that walking through the 'bad part of town', a mugging is something you brought on yourself.

Bringing something on yourself is not left entirely to a black and white interpretation of you were being an asshole to someone thus they PKed (Player Killed) you.

Playing a drow in a KOS (kill on sight) world is 'bringing it on yourself'.  Playing a Paladin and strolling through the thieves quarter on your way to somewhere else entirely is 'bringing it on yourself'.  Walking into a rowdy bar notorious for fistfights is 'bringing it on yourself'.

It is what it is and more to the point doesn't call for enforced warning of premeditated CvC.

[lovethesuit]

Do not work with absolutes, my friend.

These are the wise words I impart unto you from my years of experience.

Bwahahahahaa. Ahahahahahahahahahaha. :rolleyes:

No, you don't need to agree to PvP OOCly. Usually it's best to keep it entirely in character. Well, that's true of most things. Nonetheless, you can be courteous without expressly conversing with the other player; do it through your character's actions.

[JackOfSwords]

I don't think that an OOC agreement to PvP is the solution, but I have had situations where someone started PvP with my char when I was afk (I returned to my PC to find myself in the fugue with no idea why,) and another where I had just crashed while fighting an encounter, re-logged to find myself in the fugue, re-spawned and was sorting my quickbar when someone PvP'd me out of nowhere.  In the latter case, they were able to take advantage of the fact that I was both near death and without a quickbar for completely OOC reasons.

I think there is an extra burden on the person initiating PvP to determine whether the other player is (A) not afk, and (B) actively IC or ready to be actively IC.  That can be done simply by watching the person for a short while, and by emoting the PvP.  If you come upon someone who is standing still, especially if they continue to stand still while you attack them, you have to wonder "why?".  If you run across someone who is "near death" and you don't know why, you might just shoot them a tell and ask them - you don't even have to mention that you're about to PvP them.

Basically, if you haven't been watching them for a short while and been able to see that they're actively IC, you should be taking extra caution to determine whether they're IC or whether you're taking advantage of an OOC situation.

Finally, I find PvP without emotes to be in poor taste.  The victim should walk away from PvP with a story to tell, and the burden is on the attacker to provide the story.  This is not a rule, just good sportsmanship, and goes a long way toward reducing bad feelings.

[Denko]

Unless I'm wrong, attackers MUST be sure their opponent is not afk.

[Jayde Moon]

LTS... you lost me on the part where you added a line that I didn't say and then found it funneh.

What am I missing, please to enlighten me?

[lovethesuit]

You quoted your own post, not using quote tags but with italics. You referred to someone you're having an internet argument with as "my friend" which is a total passive-aggressive buzz term. You say "Do not work with absolutes" as though it's some ancient saying quoted directly from Confucius. Everything about your post, all together, made me laugh out loud for several minutes. Don't think I'm trying to be mean or anything, you just came across as very self-important and that made me :)

[iBard]

It's LTS.
Don't try and make sense out of it, just agree. :P
 
Anyway, back on topic. No. Going OOC during PVP or even before makes it not fun, personally. If someone's going to gank my character, I want to be surprised! I don't want to be sat at my computer chair, bracing myself for an attack. I want it to make me jump.
 
(This is not an open invitation to gank me, btw.)
 
And as for the making sure they're not afk? It shouldn't require a tell to figure it out. Basically, if they're not moving, speaking or emoting I recommend you leave it until there is a sign of life.