Cold Orb / possibly other orbs

[VanillaPudding]

A bit of maths for you:

A level 9 caster = 4 BAB. +2 base Dex mod. +2 Cat's Grace. +3 Bless/Aid/Divine Favour.

= 11 ranged touch AB.

Typical touch AC = 10 + Dex Mod.

Yes, there is Imp Invis concealment too, but really Invis Purge/Dispel deals with that.

Displacement? Dispel.

Not to mention this being a level 4 spell, so a GSF'd DC would be what - 25? 26? Pretty high chance of stun too.

Leave it as it is!

 

All other armor class modifiers, such as the size modifier, dexterity modifier, and deflection/dodge bonus (if any) apply normally

Fix your "maths" if you're going to randomly throw it out there. Deflection (shield pots, shield of faith, shield spell), dodge feat, tumble AC, and size all effect this roll, You're typical touch AC is in PvP will be anywhere from 14 on the low side to 22 on the higher end, and even more for small sizes. You might as well walk around with 40-50% spell failure with that type of success rate, especially when you compare it to things like Ice Storm, Missle Storm, and empowered level 2 spells that all do the same or more damage without a touch attack!

[JMuzz]

I've always found ranged touch attacks baffling considering one would expect a ranged spell to automatically home in on its target.

[Johannes]

None of those spells can pierce spell mantles and spell resistance. Yes, there will be some PCs who can dodge touch attacks better than others. Tailor your spells to your opponent's strengths and weaknesses. For PCs with higher touch attack AC even, recall that you can get in a couple of True Strike spells while hasted. With the disabling effects, no save on damage and its piercing of resistance/immunity, it's an extremely nice spell. It's just not your bread-and-butter and is best reserved for certain situations (such as subraces, high-SR NPCs and spell mantle scroll hoarding).

[FishyBusiness]

Fix your "maths" if you're going to randomly throw it out there. Deflection (shield pots, shield of faith, shield spell), dodge feat, tumble AC, and size all effect this roll, You're typical touch AC is in PvP will be anywhere from 14 on the low side to 22 on the higher end, and even more for small sizes. You might as well walk around with 40-50% spell failure with that type of success rate, especially when you compare it to things like Ice Storm, Missle Storm, and empowered level 2 spells that all do the same or more damage without a touch attack!

Wait what. I was talking of an unbuffed target, VP. Of course you crank it up higher.

 Shit, if we're talking about buffed targets, then ZOMG, stoneskin + Prot from elements makes people immune to ice storm, too, and thats also a level 4 spell.
Hells, NEP makes you totally immune to Enervation too!
Missile storm? No problem, drink a shield potion!
Fear? OMG PfA.
PhK? No problem again, PfA fixes that! And a few other things!
Confusion? Again!
Evards? After the fix, freedom! Or blur for that matter!
Wait, did we just go over ..all the offensive l. 4 spells and how to counter them easily?

So, don't tell me to fix my maths, because they are proper. Of course a dex-based midget is going to have horrendous Touch AC.

24 Dex = 10 +7 +4 Shielding + 4 haste +1 Dodge +2 Tumble +1 size.
Ohh. And 50% concealment on top of that.

Omg, that IS A lot indeed. But hey.

A full-plated fighter with 10 Dex? Unprepared? Carnage. Absolute carnage.

There is no save, VP for the Orb. That is what makes it precious and ... situational. (I admit, I used the Orbs only in PnP, haven't had a chance to test them on EFU)

[darkpriest]

I've always found ranged touch attacks baffling considering one would expect a ranged spell to automatically home in on its target.

if the spell would automatically home in on the target, then it would be affected by the spell resistance. Why it requires the ranged touch attack? because you are basically throwing a blob of exploding ice/acid/fire/whatever the caster has conjured and holds in his hands. It could be even an earth elemental if the caster had enough strength... throwing means a ranged attack and since it needs to only connect with the target and not pierce armor/shield, it's called ranged touch attack and not ranged attack.

[Egon the Monkey]

If these were changed to an AOE spell, this would IMO be a nerf, not a buff. Their advantage is they are a precision sniping/self defence spell, especially as they mostly stun the target in some way. They aren't as straight up powerful as Ice Storm or Missile Storm, but they'll work in any given situation. I'd have these ready most of the time on a high-level wizard for PVP defence or getaway stopping. They are what Missile or Icestorm can't be in a crowded room or brawl; a way to hugely put the hurt on one enemy, especially one with SR or a savewhore. Situational but useful, especially to avoid the dilemma of doing no real damage or smashing up bystanders.

I'd recommend taking the touch attack away, as I saw these (as they read on paper) to be a mage's counter to a Monk or Rogue who can duck most of their damage spells. Remember they're elemental, so a caster can have a fairly good defence against them with PFElements. On the other hand, a spell with no save for damage and a Fort save for stun is one of the few spells you could reliably stop a Monk with as although they have good Fort saves, they have no specific boost to those.  Keep the Touch Attack for Scorching Ray by all means, it's a fair tradeoff. Decent damage on a L2 spell and no save. But for these, at L4? Not that great.

[BRESTON]

Ive had the touch attack succeed with acid orb, and the spell not even work. Within the last 10 days.

[Nuclear Catastrophe]

Ranged touch is fine, I agree with Fishy's maths.

[Relinquish]

Question: Since all(afaik) touch attack spells can roll 20s, and receive critical hits, do these?

[Gippy]

Yes.