Cold Orb / possibly other orbs

[VanillaPudding]

For a 4th circle spell this seems rather weak even with it's bypassing of SR. It's a single target spell that does fireball damage with a save on a 1 round duration side effect. It -also- requires a ranged touch attack to succeed, which isn't something Wizards have a real advantage at.

SR and the slight chance it isn't simply crushed by a dispel or two earlier in the fight, or is simply ignored due to it being a level 7+ caster, very rarely comes in to play in terms of typical PvM and PvP (the things most spells are balanced around on EFUA). Also, most people do not have access to Globe of invulnerability but only the minor version.

I would suggest that these spells at least lose the ranged touch attack property, and possible become AOE spells with the loss of ignoring spell resistance. They would not be able to be empowered due to the level range here, and would still do less damage than an empowered version of many level 2 spells but add a single round side effect! (Combust, electric loop, melf's acid arrow, SEARING FLAME or w/e that other new spell is)

[9lives]

There's no roll for ranged touch attacks afaik.

[VanillaPudding]

Well, there is.

[chur bo]

Nooblives.

[Johannes]

You neglected to mention that the spell doesn't carry a reflex save for damage. That's huge.

I want to hear others' opinions. If voices are coherently in support of the change, then I may remove the touch attack.

[FishyBusiness]

I would sign under VP's suggestion, but I'd change them other way-

Remove the ranged touch, make it do 1d8, or even 2d6 dmg/CL, leave it a single target... but add a Fort or Will Save to halve the dmg.

[9lives]

Must just be some spells that had their attack roll removed.

[Divine Intervention]

IMO leave it as it is minus the touch attack.

[FishyBusiness]

I can see casters with Blind Fight popping up.

But after a discussion on IRC now, I changed my mind. Leave the Touch Attack as it is. Without the touch attack, two of these / round, hasted, by a level 9 caster = 18d6 in face, and possibly a stun thing for a finishing spell.

[Lenthis]

DUn dun dunananana- I support fishy in this. As thats moronicly amazing for ignoreing SR

[cmenden]

This is fine as it is, if you worry about missing ranged touch attacks, cast True Strike.

[tspawn35]

If you have a decent dex you should have a decent ranged attack. Casting true strick will give you an auto +20 to hit. Range touch are amazing because you are making the roll againt their save instead of having them make a roll against your spell dc. Plus with Range touch attacks if you hit with the attack you hit for full power there is no way to half the dam it's full hit or full miss. Usually most people have a rather low + to Will, Fort and Ref saves compared to a their roll against a dc check.

[SluaghSluagh]

Generally, guaranteed full damage (per "in the max range", rather than "as per maximized") is a whopper of a benefit... a reason it's mainly limited to a profoundly beatable and somewhat lower-damage spell like magic missile.  

Ranged touch is a price one pays to accommodate another benefit -- in this case damage and potential for a round of stun/whatever, without the target's ability to Spell Resist.  Besides, who in the world is really great at avoiding a ranged touch?  Rogues, that's about it.

Seems like a spell you won't often use in pvp, but best to save it for when you know you're going toe to toe with some drow.  Really, I'd be leery of such a change.

[FishyBusiness]

A bit of maths for you:

A level 9 caster = 4 BAB. +2 base Dex mod. +2 Cat's Grace. +3 Bless/Aid/Divine Favour.

= 11 ranged touch AB.

Typical touch AC = 10 + Dex Mod.

Yes, there is Imp Invis concealment too, but really Invis Purge/Dispel deals with that.

Displacement? Dispel.

Not to mention this being a level 4 spell, so a GSF'd DC would be what - 25? 26? Pretty high chance of stun too.

Leave it as it is!

[Gennedy]

I agree with those in favor of leaving it as is. From what I've been reading it's working like it's supposed to.