Armada needs help, and distinctiveness

[KRUNTO]

I think tropic's suggestion is the best so far, for what it's worth!

[TheImpossibleDream]

Stygians get a nice full plate and some /day items already that are quite nice. I've held most of thier armor at one point or another. They still have the upper hand even against the mugger type character thanks to some of these peices. It's just a matter of being both mechanically apt and LUCKY enough to get ahead of the game.

Making good allies also helps.

[GoblinSapper]

Maybe the Armada should deal with being on the losing side of their battles ICly instead of OOCly.
 
Maybe them being outnumbered and losing all the time isn't a result of some form of inherent mechanical disability or poor work by players, but simply because the Armada consists of a bunch of belligerent and warmongering assholes that are at odds with every other major faction on the server because of their elitist ideals.

Yeah, this. Armada PC's CHOOSE to get killed. There's alot of different ways to play an Armadasman. Getting out there and getting PVP'd isn't necessarily the only way.

[Talir]

If people want to suggest more ways to help the Armada's members, feel free. We've had enough of contemplation about what players should or shouldn't do, what mistakes are made etc.

That stops.

[VanillaPudding]

I don't believe that tossing them a free leto feat or two as they progress would be a major issue on balance. I also believe that reworking 5 tier (IIRC) promotion system into something a little more simple would be nice for them, or at least give them bonuses on those promotions.

Touch of Stygia - The gauntlets of the Armada retain some of the chilling touch of Stygia, adding 1 cold damage to all attacks. Obtained after successful completion of "Spoiler" to become inducted.

Ymphian protector - Since before the days of Red Eleint and throughout their stay on Ymph,  the Stygian Infantry has found themselves outnumbered in countless battles. Due to proper training in formation and defensive stances, infantrymen of the Armada may well protect themselves from these many foes. (Infantry only - gained at second honor - Shield of faith 1/day at caster level of their own level. )

Restless watchman - blah blah blah, specialists always alert for foes. +3 spot / listen in any "colony" territory. Rogues cunning or one with the land 1/day at second honor, specialist only.

A few small perks like that might work but might also lead to the chain reaction of other factions wanting similar things. I don't truly believe they need mechanical help so much as they need more specific things on their agenda. I think the PCs in that faction should be pressured to get out and conquer / transform the wilderness into Trenada's lands. I think they should be more relentless and strict in their LE flavor of justice and law, and I think they need to stop -letting- people push them around from all sides ICly.

A touch more of that mercenary attitude, quick to defend their Duke / Lord / code behavior on the NPC and PC side of things would go a long way in restoring what they were previously. Bring back the Burkden style Stygian that made them so great.

[Dr Dragon]

Itd help if everyone's second grandmother didn't want to kill Stygians. Seriously there was a point where Ortega realized if he killed every new arrival hed slay a future foe 90% of the time.

[GoblinSapper]

Itd help if everyone's second grandmother didn't want to kill Stygians. Seriously there was a point where Ortega realized if he killed every new arrival hed slay a future foe 90% of the time.

I think this is more a symptom of the Armada being the villains du'jour, and being their allies doesn't always offer great rewards- the Armada has a reputation for using up or blowing off adventurers and outside help. Rather then directly strengthening the Armada, giving perks to Dominion centric PC's (and I mean really dominion centric, not just joe schmoe adventurer- Patricians at least) may make the Dominion a better destination for PC's, and give the Armada a better support structure.

[Letsplayforfun]

I'd reckon the main issue is that factions sometimes shift focus from what may have been initially intended.

That is: docks was more or less to be a CE place, it turns out to be CG so called 'freedom fighters' saloon, except when a dominant truly evil PC makes up for it.

Stygian was to be LN elite, they are now percieved as dirty slavers pro-necromancy that are fair game especially when there's few stygian-PCs.

Enabling people to sell PC (even NPC) slaves to Stygians would probably have them be much more sympathic to the average adventurer who'd suddenly see they as allies for lucrative trade. But scripted slave-selling is probably not a good idea.

Helping out stygians might be also done by tweaking their 'enemies'. If anyone coming in the docks was regularly pickpocketed or mugged, then the strength of a lawful place would be clear as daylight.

Maybe allow PC stygians to call upon a Stygian 'henchman', same as summon or animal companion, useable only in Zig, Warden, Alleys, Gate, Squat ...would tip the odds in terms of 'don't mess with them'.

I don't think more equipement or spells would help, as when pvp is concerned, it's mostly a matter of the player's aptitude with pvp, and spells, potions, trinkets, are already common.

[Disco]

LPFF regarding summon henchman. I love it.. About time the lazy NPC stygians got off their bum. Its a bit like the old Spellgaurd summon animatron :)

[Egon the Monkey]

With regards to what you said LPFF, the Stygians have always felt more LE than LN to me, compared to Sharboneth. Actively grabbing slaves, hiring a division of bloodthirsty monsters etc. They've got more Neutral, but their recent past was pretty damn Evil.

The Docks, at least in my time playing there attracted a lot of Good PCs because fight-for-your-corner anarchy was preferable to a law that seemed tailor-made to protect Evil PCs from retribution. The Docks gave opportunities to proactively do good with charity/development, and oppose Evil without landing a whacking bounty on your head for it on top of the conflict.

I think making the Dominion more of an ethical grey area would be good for reducing the number of inevitable enemies for the Armada. If the Armada get a chance to look like the good guys on occasion by punishing obvious Dominion villains for being Unacceptably Evil as well as  busting rebels and pissed off wilds PCs, there's more chance for a  range of concepts to rise to the top in the faction, without being hit  by multiple vendettas.

For example, the whole "Armada loves necromancy" thing seems to have come about because undead are treated as property and prominent necromancers know they'll be protected by the Stygians. I'd argue the counter to that would be to make "legitimate" undead harder to come by. For example, if you don't have a clear legal claim to the body you used (and you're not going to on the default Animate Dead spell or Skull Familiar usually), you're guilty of Grave Robbery, or it's fair game for smiting as nobody's property. I know, I know, "so suggest that IC" but Bill's no politician. Besides, you'd think that sort of thing would be frowned on by the upper echelons of the Armada as fighting through puppets, not like men.

Heavily restrict or ban something that's a popular Evil pursuit, and suddenly it's possible to bust PCs for going beyond the law or even frame them. That'll lead to more villainous characters working from dingy hideouts rather than hiding behind the Armada and so worsening the Armada's rep with other factions. More characters working on political attacks or investigations *with* the Stygians despite their authoritarian reputation, rather than defecting to the docks or wilds, or ignoring problems.

[Decimate_The_Weak]

I think the Stygian Armada has a lot of potential, and always has. You get your hands into some interesting plots, you get to meet a whole assortment of villains, heroes, etc.
 
With what LPFF stated, I think I'll agree with him. In my eyes, I view the conflict between the Docks & Dominion similar to England & the American Colonies. Tyranny versus weak, rugged rebels. As we all know that the docks are supposed to be extremely chaotic and filled with thieves, cutthroats, and so on, we rarely (sometimes we do) see that.
 
It is up to the player to make his Stygian PC strong and reputable, but I think their biggest weakness is the fact that the Dominion sees too few loyalists, and the docks sees far too many.

[Porkolt]

Touch of Stygia - The gauntlets of the Armada retain some of the chilling touch of Stygia, adding 1 cold damage to all attacks. Obtained after successful completion of "Spoiler" to become inducted.

This would be awesome if Stygian wasn't derived from the river Styx which does not exist in FR, and if the region of Stygia wasn't from the universe of Conan the Barbarian.
 
 
Sorry, I'm being pedantic again.

[Mort]

This would be awesome if Stygian wasn't derived from the river Styx which does not exist in FR, and if the region of Stygia wasn't from the universe of Conan the Barbarian.
 
 
Sorry, I'm being pedantic again.

And wrong. Stygia is the fifth layer of Hell and it has the river Styx.

Pedantic + Arrogant + Wrong = Bad Mix.

[Porkolt]

Er... Damn the people that put all these false ideas in my head!

[The Beggar]

giving perks to Dominion centric PC's (and I mean really dominion centric, not just joe schmoe adventurer- Patricians at least) may make the Dominion a better destination for PC's, and give the Armada a better support structure.

I agree.

IMO people go to factions for many different reasons, but stay due to:

1. RP fun and interaction
2. Offer support and growth for PC (loot / xp / gold)
3. Don't have the perception of pinching characters into too similar a mold
4. Offer opportunity to go after solid PC goals.

The first two are mainly a result IMO of PCs in the group, or the perception of past PCs that have accomplished things. The last two are more a result of the actual faction delineators (ex: no X, Y or Z, but yes A, B, and C)

From my experience if one of the above is lacking, it is usually ok and the PC stays. If more than one is perceived as lacking, PCs will leave the faction, allow a character to die, or not app for the faction.

Faction momentum is also important. I think this faction has a great history, and is one I would app to be in if I didn't already have a great character I was really into. That said, some things that can help a slow faction are faction plots, membership recruitment (got to get those numbers up usually above 3 active for good IG presence and interaction within the faction), regular play, interesting characters...the list is long.

Anyhow, must my two cents.