The trouble with Factions

[Vlaid]

I don't see anything wrong with the way the server is heading. People complain about a lack of direction, then they complain about too much direction (All PC fueled mind you).

I for one, welcome our new insect overlord's and hope they bring stability to our once chaotic sovereign state.

[Wern8]

I find this kind of situation to be very interesting, as I always prefer to play the underdog and I do think that we players should look at it as an interesting situation, rather than as a problem. There will always be cycles, so better to enjoy what they may bring and these dominating forces are never as strong and powerful as they may seem to be, I think that there is just a lack of courage to fight/act, and take risky moves against them around or people are just doing it wrongly.

[Winston Martin]

If you want to oppose Olid your main problem is organization. It is why his faction is powerful and yours is weak. You need to surround yourself with -players- that are reliable and want the same things you do. Failing that, you need to -train- players to stick to a character and want to learn how to get the most out of EFU:A.

The biggest problem with player run factions is that they often lack interesting goals to pursue. This is a problem you Egon, as a faction leader, can influence. You need to have very specific things to always be working towards, that will attract like minded characters to you. It can be a difficult thing to do well and sometimes takes time to learn. Good factions can be especially difficult to stick with, because they are generally reactive, as opposed to evil factions which are generally proactive.

Something that was stressed in Sanctuary was that you do not make enemies where you don't need to. It is just common sense that if you are starting a fledgling government you do not antagonize the most powerful group, you legitimize them until you can turn the tables.

[Garem]

Pre-Montezzi Spellguard.

Montezzi.

Team Rebel at the end of Sanctuary.

This isn't new.

Oh, and one small thing about losing PvP. I've been here... three years now? I cannot recall when I was ever a notable player in a PvP battle, barring some scuffles on Dugbone against notably weaker people and once with Lucius Westmore. Aside from two or three instances out of twenty, thirty, maybe more... it just hasn't happened. I still love EfU, too. Be careful of turning the wonderful, dynamic world that is EfU into a simple battleground. It has so much more to offer! Destroying things, PCs, NPCs, whole factions can certainly be fun, but building the world like a sandcastle has been ultimately more gratifying than PvP, at least for me.

Basically, yes, PvP is great and important for EfU, but it is not the most important nor should it be.

Lastly, and most importantly, mulletsandcamaros is lame, but not/never as lame as Kotenku, for reasons utterly unrelated to this whole post and state of affairs. He also drinks like a sissy. Fin.

[Goldfishpie]

Although some suggestions have been made on how good might battle evil better, I think it should be remembered that while evil may have no scruples on how they go about defeating their enemies, most good (especially lawful good) characters will have. It is the same difference that makes it difficult for good aligned characters to cooperate, because albeit their goals a similar, they may often have very different opinions on to how to solve their problems. Not all good characters will sort to assassination, even if it is the more effective way.
 
 
 
 
Admittedly, I have not read all of the posts, but I believe the OA is not asking for DMs to even things out, but that good has not always been a very attractive alignment to play and perhaps the DM could help “sweeten the deal”. The topic of lack of “good aligned drops” has already been made but it seem to be sorely lacking any obvious factions (PCs or DMs), perhaps the Fleet isn't obvious enough with its goals, where “team good” might gather, lead by tireless leaders like Armand Waters.


-Signed: Armand Waters Fan-girl.

[Metro_Pack]

I just want to clarify a few points.

Firstly, the players of Coravain and de Olid both did really well at building a conflict, letting it play out without rushing to slaughter, and involving lots of others in it.

Secondly, the NPCs of neither Coravains nor de Olid's DM faction went around smashing anyone who stood in their way, nor filling them full of loot for free.

It was a nice, well RPed conflict by most involved, but when push comes to shove someone has to end up a victor and a vanquished.

[Egon the Monkey]

Like I said, I'm not making this post as a rant because my main got ended. I apologise if it sounds like that and has annoyed anyone. I was going to vent this anyway. Labur got ended *because*I got this frustrated with the situation and didn't go with his continuing plan to get Dwarves together and try and pull some Black Arrows re-enactment, or use potion profits to hire a hitter. Instead I saw Olid and Morningblood turn up to that fight and thought "Well, I could stand down or run, or I could try and break their faces". Stupidly, I took Option B. Really, I should have gone with making a faction that didn't require Race=Dwarf. It would have been easier :P.

I think I probably slanted that too heavily towards Olid Gang influence due to recently half the Ziggurat weighing in on their side, rather than "Good PCs are just not feeling wortht it right now".
Goldfishpie has it right. I'm not whining for a "DM Ex Machina", just wanting some sort of focal point for Good PCs, because like she said, there's a lot of uncooperative Good guys, partly as you can't pull the same "Riches and power" trick to recruit principled Good types as easily, and the Bolt doesn't really suit non-seafaring or Lawful types so much.

But, I was trying to provoke some response and discussion, because I was fresh out of ideas for making a Good PC with some kind of chance of influence, and was this close to "Sod it I'm making a Velsharite, Here Come The Zombies."

@Mort: I never said DM support, I meant it as "bandwagoning, player support". The only direct DM support I saw recently was you cleaning up the bits of that unsanctioned PVP that broke out and creating a decently in-depth ending for four of us.)

Thanks to everyone who posted up constructive stuff here, I've been stuck for ideas, tactics, everthing, compared to players running any other factions here. First time trying a PC faction.

I do have a faction idea in the workings now, or I may decide to go with a small Evil group or PC with no ties to any of the others (Possibly with accompanying zombies though). I've been wanting to make a villainous type for some time now, but I'd rather balance things out somehow. (Really, I should have made a TN Druid for EFUA ;))

[VauntedSpirit]

It's a well known fact baddies flock to an influential evil entity like flies to shit.
 
All de Olid is trying to do for the playerbase, is make an evil PC for the good PCs to target. Intelligently.
 
mulletsandcamareros is a good PvPer, perhaps direct combat isn't as intelligent as you first thought? Perhaps appealing to his weaknesses?
 
This entire situation takes a good deal of thought, on both sides. Just step outside the box, for just a moment. PvP isn't the be all and end all of conflict.

[Oroborous]

Here's the thing, there are groups that are trying to stand up to de Olid and trying to build power--but very few people are supporting them. I know the militia, which has stood up to the Stygians in the past has almost no one flocking to it. Our DM support rather than nil is actually an effective "negative support" because right now the DMs are making it extremely challenging for us as we need to prove our dedication and committment to the NPCs still.

All these lawful and good PCs that want to flock somewhere should start banding together to try to do something about de Olid. He's not unstoppable, no one really is.

However, those who have tried to stop him have all been reckless and/or arrogant in their approach and were quickly stopped. De Olid's got lots of player support because he's honestly following the tried and true approach for building a player faction.

1) Level up and quest a lot with PCs you know and trust. This gets you a) powerful, b) insanely well equipped, c) makes you lots of friends who want to be a) powerful, and b) insanely well equipped.

2) Roleplay an interesting character with at least a few clear and solid goals.

[hardesh]

get devious

make an evil pc; rest your good pc for a while; join evil faction. soon there will be no downtrodden masses. evil faction breaks up ! aha!

to be more serious: do people not enjoy playing a downtrodden mass as well? i love it.

[Mort]

http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/old_forums/viewtopic.php?t=36960&start=0

...and...

http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/old_forums/viewtopic.php?t=23581&start=0

...funny, isn't it?

[pyth]

PhK from invis imo. Problem solved.

[MisterPAIN]

1: I'd have to say there was a lot of incompetency for a lot of the non-Olid PCs all around for running quests with an appropriate group.  Generally things aren't covered and people get boned due to running certain quests which had peanut rewards that one could only profit from hosing through them with the appropriate buffs, if you ask me.  Therefore not as much leveled PCs or stocked ones.  Less PUG EfU:A please.

2: Some aren't getting the idea of being in a group to be influential.

3: The Banners thing isn't implemented yet, therefore pursuing any influence has gotten some people lazy as hell and they aren't doing anything.

[tooh]

The King is dead. Long live the King!

1. New factions are the same as old factions, at really in what it can be diferent ?
Power, Balance, Survive, Explore, Return, Protection, Opression, Racial, Deity, Relic, Dogma, Justice, just pick at random till is enough.

2. The spice must flow and the DooM is Go(o)d. When a player don't trust in DMs sense, better move to other server. It never will be a peer server, it can't be because have no rules for DMs.

3. Unique rule is do whatever our char must do, not what you like do to, and plan how do it, else play dices elsewhere.
Both Coravain and de Olid done all it IC, what is the catch?


Nature makes no errors, good or bad are human concepts. (ditto Dune.)

[dragonfire9000]

Not going to read all of that because I've read it before, many times. If you want a good faction, DM or otherwise, then make it. Please. I've played with you Egon, and you're pretty darn good. It would not be hard for you to accomplish if you had enough time to put into it.

RIVAL IDEA!!! Just make your character with a sweet background, detailed ideas and some kind of quirks and throw him into the game. I for one have never met Olid or any of his goons with ANY of my characters, so I'm not sure how they can be ruling the server...