The trouble with Factions

[Jayde Moon]

Why don't we all just get back in game and figure out IC what your character wants to do about it?

[Metro_Pack]

Good is easier to play than evil.

[PanamaLane]

We can get back IG and will, I think however, there is a lot of value to this discussion. I'd like to point out though, I don't think its harder to play good or harder to play evil as such. I think its harder to win PvP as good, is all I really meant. You don't need to win at PvP either to have a successful character. One of my favorite characters never lifted a finger against even a fly and I'd say he was the most successful one I've had to date.

In my opinion, evil tends to engage in PvP more. Thus, they tend to get richer faster from robbing corpses, even if they are other evil corpses. But more importantly, when you win PvP, you impress DM's and that key custom loot is more likely to be in your future.
 
PvP is the -easiest- method to gain a DM's attention, imo. I know from experience that if I shoot a DM channel tell about wanting to talk to such and such NPC about entirely RP things I'm about 95% less likely to get a response then if I say, "Need a DM for PvP". Not to mention that even when I do want to just talk to an NPC, its usually easier to get an evil one on the line. I mean, not to make it too personal or anything, but I've been a very active member of the society for weeks now, and I haven't been wanded, or met Bell, or outfitted, or anything. I understand DM's are busy and those kinds of tasks seem dull, but very often what they are busy with is PvP and following characters that engage in it. [And before I ruffle any feathers with that, I would like to point out Sternhund's awesomeness on the forums, which is all I really need to do what I do anyhow. Its just an example.]

Now, when the typical evil lvl 5 fighter stands up to the typical good lvl 5 fighter (who hasn't been engaging in PvP often), there is almost always a huge item gap and it leans toward advantage evil. At least that's the way its been with my characters. I'd encourage DM's to actually take a inventory, so to speak, and compare the loot lvls between equivalent character lvls on the good/evil spectrum. If you find its pretty even, then let me know. I'll shut up, I promise. But if you do find there is a difference, then perhaps its time to consider the possibility that there is an actual discrepancy.

So, what kind of solutions are out there? Well first off, good PC's could start PvP more often. Personally, it just doesn't work for a lot of the good characters I play, but if anyone else out there wants to take up the mantle, by all means do.

Another solution would be for the DM team to invest some additional effort into rewarding non-PvP centered players, good and evil. This is where I think things like faction loot and NPC organization can be really helpful. If you're not particularly powerful, but you have powerful friends, it goes a long way. As much as player factions are great and can grow to be powerful, I'd say its not the norm for them to do so. Most player factions die out when their leader does and often that happens far before they should. For every Montezzi, there are about 10 failed player factions. DM factions give a balance, and I'd like to see more of them in general in EFU:A, good and evil.

Ok, so I weighed in today. I hope this is helpful to you all and doesn't sound like bitching. I'm having fun either way.

[Sandstorm]

Just as a comment, it is easier to get a DM for PvP because PvP requires a DM instantly, usually, while talking to NPCs can wait. Imagine the person you want to PvP walks into a solitary area alone while usually surrounded by lots of guards. The DMs understand most people need to capitalize on that moment, instead of waiting 10-15 minutes while they finish off, and their targets leave.

[Oroborous]

Sometimes, talking to NPCs takes so loooong though.

Having spent a few weeks hoping to talk to a single NPC or two, its frustratingly slow.

[petey512]

I can personally gurantee that playing a good aligned character is not hard at all until there is no government or law system. Get a -good- government set up if it bothers you greatly, and don't be dumb about it. Just because your'e good doesn't mean your'e opposed to killing people underhandedly. If you don't like this Oleff guy or whatever his name is, get a group together IG to discreetly kill the guy. It's easy, I promise. There is such a thing as sneaky vengefull good-doers, ever hear of batman?

If your'e not patient enough to do that then get about four people to choose the paladin class with you and begin power-levelling, that's what I find most people do in times like this.

[Inquisitor]

It's all cyclical.

Be more awesome than the bad guys and you'll have your own flock of peeps to drive your horse carriage and bring you to all the tea-parties you want.

[Gippy]

Panama, the argument that good does not get into PvP as much is rather inane when people are complaining about how many evil PCs there are right now on the server. There's a plethora of evil targets to gain riches from if you believe PvP really gives such an advantage in terms of spoils. Efficient small group questing and effective sharing of resources is far more effective then PvP in getting rich.

If you're making the argument that the evil on the server currently has some insurmountable advantage then I again would strongly disagree. Level 8 PCs have weaknesses. I had one of the most powerful PvP characters on the server, in the form of a halfling bandit, she was level 9, and was taken out by a random level 5 confusion charge item fired by a man with big balls. Up until that point I had beaten into the dust level 9's, 10's, and various other groups of PCs. Then, suddenly, I was dusted by the effects of a DC 16 item.

Most important though, is that people must enjoy the struggle between good and evil, and sometimes they must settle on a shaky coexistence. There is evil in the world of YMPH, and while people can crusade against it, sometimes it is the need of good characters to just try to hold it at bay, mitigate its affects as best they can, and hope for better days. Not all good PCs need be champions, paragons of good, and slayers of all evil. I will give example of FRIAR TUCK in Robin Hood, who all would agree was an excellent man, but he did not stand against the Sheriff and die stupidly. He did what he could by collecting alms for the poor and holding out for the return of the king. He stuck to his code, and was never driven to join the false king for profit or gold, but instead humbly went about helping others as best he could.

[Oroborous]

Friar Tuck rocked the Sheriff's world! Then decided to give him a chance to gain some power so it would be more interesting in the long run. Sadly, the Sheriff was able to kill 1000 orcs a day, when Tuck was only able to kill 300 a day.

So the Sheriff got much more powerful much more quickly. Which is why Tuck had to band together with Robin Hood and the Merry Men PC faction.

Sadly, because the Sheriff was such a high level, and questing so often--he'd made many more friends with his PC faction and Robin Hood was quickly decimated by the Sheriff's superior numbers.

Luckly, Maid Marrion had a Wand of Confusion, and fu**ed up the Sheriff even though she was level three. She hit him in the middle of the inn while he was resting, and he was slain by the NPC AoO as he tried to run out of the tavern.

[Violent_Man]

The End.

[petey512]

Nice. Wow. I'm just... speechless.

[cyberspaceship]

I was involve in this event, and personaly, i think it just great to have that kind of conflict on a rp server. The two sides was prepared and evryone was ready for something like that. The most organized and powerfull side win. It's fair no? Evils characters always look for power and twisted aliances and that time, they did it well. I dont understand where is the problem if one faction are larger, or have more supply and backup. Its a part of the game, and, buy the way, i was on the looser side.

[Dilandau Kale]

To be fair I was involved in this event as well I had literally logged in to find someone my char is friends with being dragged off in chains in front of me so I did what I thought my char would do and got perma'd for it. As for loot the most impressive thing my char had was a wand of cure light wounds whereas most people seem to have entire bags full of magic potions of blur strength and the like. So yeah pvp for me is not fun. I also then find out that people in the bar that were killed earlier in the pvp are raised and that the ones that were taken away in chains people are trying to rescue with if not dm support there certainly not saying they cant do that. My char? fed to the fish so it seems that just about the only person permad in the whole thing was me.

[PanamaLane]

Oro nailed it.

[Caddies]

No he didn't.