The trouble with Factions

[Egon the Monkey]

I'm more tired of the one-sided situation on EfU right now than I was in the end of Sanctuary, and it's a great deal down to one player faction getting a lot of indirect and direct support. The Olid Gang. This isn't sour grapes at losing Labur, but rather the opposite. I stayed stupidly involved in that fight after (known) Company PCs turned up yesterday because I was sick of the faction getting so much backup, and out of sheer IC and OOC frustration hoped I might have a chance to FD one or two of the wounded ones and balance things out a bit.

They have a DM faction behind them, ridiculous supplies and a bunch of goons (PCs and NPC base guards). They piledriver everything, rule the server and nobody can touch them. This isn't conflict so much as bashing your head against a wall. They were cool while it was them and the Amauntori as 2 PC factions against each other, but now there's no rival, and a DM faction on their side. When the server started out, I guess a lot of us assumed the First Bolt and Armada would be at each other's throats in a sort of cold war. Several letters to the Fleet went along those lines. It didn't work out like that.

As a result nobody so can seriously threaten the Company or the Armada, so lots just join them instead. See today's ass-kicking of the druids. It's boring, and frustrating. There's nothing like Seeker/Spellguard rivalry, Montezzi or Ghyrrt/Upper fighting, or the Rebellion and Host hiding out in various places

There is nowhere for a general good PC to go to if don't want to put up with slavers, necromancers, etc. The Gazers will chuck you out a tree head-first if you bring conflict to their woods (so that's hide only), and the Shark's impractical both for reaching the majority of quests and using the sendings.

Any serious Good chars get pretty marginalised. Other than the Bolts, who don't interfere with stuff on land, there's no mostly Good or mostly altrusitic Lawful DM faction like the Greycloaks, Watch, Society, Seekers etc. There's not even any decent Good loot. Hell, I stopped selling potions on Labur for a good while after he was pretty sure it was only Evil PCs affording big orders.

This isn't a rant at any of the Team Olid players, you've got cool PCs there. It's at the way the situation was unbalanced from the start with factions and leaving the Zig to PC faction influence when PCs for various OOC reasons don't organise so well.

It's not made me want to give up, but it has made me pretty much give up on trying to affect the server as I'd want to make PVP-rigged powerbuilds rather than interesting builds if I'm going to risk any chance of a fight.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

I find myself agreeing with Egon's Statement. It isn't as much as it's Olid's fault, it's people joining the BandWagon, join a different group people!

[Relinquish]

People always flock to the winning side it seems.

[Gullible Righteousness]

Hear, hear!
 
Below is Cruzel on a motivational rant. : )

[lovethesuit]

I saw no problem with it really. Both sides stared lined up and then started beating on each other, and the better prepared one won. What exactly are you saying should be done about this?

[Cruzel]

You're forgetting even one or two level 3's or 4s CAN take down a PC like Olid, Montezzi, whatever. Nobody in this faction or any faction on EFU is unbeatable. This is something most people don't grasp. If you work for it, you can do it. It may not be as simple as running up and saying ; Hey I'm going to try to kill you in a a huge fight when you have all your friends and you're all fully buffed.

They may have more supplies, better backing, and whatnot- But there is still a pretty good chance to take them down if you use strategy and prepare properly.   Use your brains to win your fights, not your powerbuilds!

You say there is no place for Good PCs; Then Make one! Sometimes rampant PVP is not the only solution to a conflict. Make a truce, move around, form a coalition or some shit. Make your own "Good" HQ. In order for there to be a 'Good' Faction there needs to be people willing and working to make the difference, for people to bandwagon on.  EFU has been like this since I got here, shifting from 'Good' beingin  power, to 'evil'. During each shift there is almost always one post complaining about the balance of the good/evil. Instead of posting something that has already been posted tons of times over, with just different faction names inserted; Work for it! It is only impossible if you think it is.

[Vanfolkenfanel]

This does echo with me some of the feelings I've had over the last couple of days. It just strikes me as odd when characters I would assume to be Good are suddenly all throwing there lot in with murderers and slavers. Also as for trying to set up a bastion of good thing its actually a lot harder than it seems since evil char can do things that while not prohibited by good characters are certainly frowned upon (assassinations etc). It also seems odd that you have a room with half a dozen seekers in it whilst people being marched away in chains to be sold into slavery happening less that 30 meters away

[Nufferz]

I do not know every conflict that goes on in the server, but it seems to me that there is just one large group of evil PCs and a few separate/unorganized factions of good/neutral PCs.  The issue that arises from this is a tough task taken on by the PCs who actually wish to change the server towards their honorable or righteous goals.  A common and classic dilemna.

One thing I think would add to the dynamic is if these 10 amazingly powerful evil PCs didn't always work together.  However, such is the case at the moment and, yes, it is an obstacle to get over for team good.  The natural reaction from these then neutral PCs who must choose who to support becomes quite clear: remain neutral or benefit from the badasses and join the evil bandwagon.  There are a few who actually make the choice to help the underdogs; however, they seem to just end up looted and unrewarded.

While I dislike scrutiny, I enjoy criticism and suggesting ways to help better the server.  What it comes down to is the players who support the one-sidedness of the server at times.  When building a character or new concept, I notice a lot of PCs who are specifically made to take advantage of the groups such as Olid to quickly gain power and loot.  Yes, they may have their own goals, but they use the situation of the server to support their character's growth.  I personally enjoy the opposite, joining those factions or groups that are in a rut and could use some attention.

Another major issue is that I find while some players are quite powerful in PvP, many people are inexperienced and tremble at the first sign of it.  I would just ask that those people who are confident in their skills perhaps reconsider their new concepts and place them on hold to help aid in the struggling factions who fail miserably at making any real stand.  I know it sounds silly, but I'm pretty confident that most of you can put off one concept and easily come up with another in order to stir things up.

Finally, DMs!  One thing I have noticed in the complete failure of righteous PCs to take over is very little support (and I could be completely wrong about this).  Yes, it is up to the players to remain self-reliant and work hard towards their goals, but as it is right now, it is tough.  I would merely ask that DMs take notice and support the weaker side to create a more dynamic play on power struggle until it is felt that no influence is necessary.

I do not post much, but I enjoy reading so let me add that I love the server and it is a damn fun game.

[petey512]

I'd just like to point out that before this it was team good that was always on the rise and with the backing many DM Factions. Not many people complained then, conveniently enough. Being good isn't supposed to be easy.... there's a lot more I can say but I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings on the subject.

Maybe the DMs want players to actually fight for what is "right". Even when it's not convenient for them. It's easy to be team good when there is about 4 DM Factions that are fighting with you against every tiny evil faction, and all the good loot rocks. If you don't like playing like that then make an evil character. It's easy. You click any button on the bottom row of alignment choices.

[Meldread]

This is really the fault of the player base.  DM's reward awesome players, and de Olid's player is awesome and thus he's rewarded.  

This type of stuff always happens.  When players see one person being awesome (and as a result getting DM attention and loot) they flock to said individual and his / her group.  

Plus, de Olid has joined a DM faction and has the typical backing of a DM faction just as anyone else would.

My suggestion to everyone who wants to see things change is the following.  Use your character or start a new one and join another faction that would naturally oppose the Armada.  Although I've been away, I've seen more than a handful of potential candidates.  Then be awesome to gain DM attention, and as a result people will begin to flock to your side.

That's the easiest and best way to do it. It sets a bad precedent to ask the DM's to intervene when a player is doing well.  If you do not think you can stand toe to toe with the Armada use cunning instead.  Plot in secret, form a group of like minded individuals, and then begin to assassinate his allies one by one.  Make it clear that anyone who joins de Olid will join him in death.  Work so that your identities are not revealed so he cannot strike back.  Find a way to get your hands on explosives then bomb the hell out of the Armada's base.  Burn their ships.

Use your head.  There is lots you can do if you act intelligently, but please do not ask the DM's to jump in to penalize a player who is doing well.  This is the job of the players.

[Gippy]

Imbalance is the spice of life. Enjoy an overwhelming and oppressive regime while you can. If it is evil today, in three months it will be good. One cannot always be the victor of the story. Eventually this regime will change. Sometimes it is an amazing realization that your PC cannot defeat the big evil, but I assure you -- someone can. I can post more about my experiences playing a Montezzi later, and the subtle plots that people did not see going on in the background of that faction.

[Caddies]

Gippy and Meldread have nailed it. Factional power is entirely cyclical.

If you desire a change in the status quo yet lack the mechanical savviness to stand tall against the established powers, then outfox them in the intrigue game. Establish an information ring, recruit in secret, hire assassins, lay elaborate traps, identify and cut off your enemy's sources of wealth and support, that sort of thing. There is alot to be said about intrigue on EFU, and I think its something that is sadly all-too-often left at the wayside in favor of quest bashing and the consumable arms-race. You can be assured that the Montezzis, and indeed, de Olid's gang presently, have relied (and still do, in de Olid's case) on using the various tools of intrigue to come to power, and hold onto it. Beat them in this game and you stand a real chance to emerge from the struggle victorious!

[Dr Dragon]

This is a DRD Rant!


I have to say there are many solutions to beating a evil group or any group then just showing up buffing up with your potions and charging.  


for 1 Listen to Caddies believe it or not he was taking a huge group of evil pcs some ages ago that did have DM and Pcs with potions and stuff. All alone by himself. (infact Caddies has performed operations like this numerouse times and one of his chars was responsiple for taking down a DM Faction that had tons of Npcs.)      


2 Watch Star Wars and ask yourself


"Did the rebels just get all there men and charge into the Empire head on?" NO THE REBELS SABATOGED BLEW UP BATTLE STATIONS AND USED GUERILLA WARFARE.

3 Watch V for Vendetta and ask yourself if V alone could of taken on all the High Chancelors guards and there army all by himself.


4  Another tip

Who says you have to slay your own foes? Many of us dont like to get our hands dirty. Many of us dont think we can take them on. Many more of us dont want to kill a foe to suffer the charges of Murder or to get punished by the law.


HINT HINT

Hitmen! Hitmen have been very effective on EFU and having an enemy killed is just as fun as killing an enemy yourself.





5 Who says evil has to stick with one group?

For one many evil people might be disgusted by Olids actions and seek to slay him. It is not like all evil people have this magnetic attraction to eachother and they all want to make out plot and do all this evil stuff together.

Many evil people infact fight other evils.


For example.

Cyric Vs Bane

Garagauth vs Everyone

Shar Vs Everyone

Infact I hate to admit this but most of the Lives our Dark Hearted Dread Watchmen Koinus Sten actually slew more evil then good people.


End rant

[Mort]

Yes, when people win a few battles through luck or otherwise... it may change the characters that you are usually used to seeing around the gameworld, but is that bad?

No! It's really not. We do stress the importance of sticking with one character, but it's also important to be able to cope with a loss. This feeling of imbalance or unjustice toward whatever you play at the time isn't unique to EfU:A. Any server that allows competitive, challenging and interesting conflict will have these kinds of posts ( see http://www.karashur.net/mmorpg-articles/carebear.php ). But with every death in PvP, you learn and your characters become more complex and interesting, and possibly do more actions to attract positive attention from other players, and possibly have a group of their own that will tilt the balance of power toward whatever you personally play. It has been said times and times again, power is cyclical... and it varies sometimes abruptly, and when it varies abruptly, people feel insecure.

But as of now, all the PvP (that you talk about) has mostly been done between high-level high-profile characters with lots of background to themselves and to the conflict.

Most of these characters made the conscious choice to oppose or to engage in pvp (they weren't forced into it or griefed, there was always a way out).

Factions have not received a ridiculous amount of support, this is just yourself giving you an excuse as to why you lost. PLEASE, this is simply not true and if anything, I am appaled that the belief is toward that as ... some NPCs have died recently giving their ALL-OUT trying to help the groups that lost. These NPCs were certainly NOT weak and killed many in the opposing group as well as nearly killed MOST of them.

Similarly to the age of Montezzi, where Montezzi group killed all the Spellguard (despite the Spellguard having HUGE Npc support), killed all the Seekers, and yes, destroyed a large clan of dwarf. Many players of that time were jealous of their success, scared IC of their power, but their time DID come to an end... and when it did I was really sad because it was not a PC that ended triumphing over them, it was a lame NPC... I was really hoping that my character could have been the one to stop them and it didn't happen :( . So, cherish these unstable, tough times as when they are over and 'peace' return to the lands, it will slowly get dull until someone re-upsets the balance!... these unfair times are where it is fun to play because there are lots of characters you can oppose, send spies in their midst, try to break their alliances through lies and deceit, etc.

This is just a small quote. Dont take offense, but the theory of the "The server is tilted against whatever I personally play" is just an excuse to reason having lost in PvP... Dont make excuses :( ... Many outcomes could have happened this week-end, and it is simply luck that it turned this way.

Most people won't win every encounter. It seems like society has created this "everyone is a winner" attitude. It makes people hate/deny mistakes. I've heard every excuse in the book when it comes to why someone lost a battle. Don't make excuses! Just look at every loss as a learning experience. Take the steps to find others who are willing to teach you how to become good in player versus player encounters.

Every failure should be considered a rich opportunity for learning what doesn't work, and why.

Trying out pvp for the first time reminds me of the story of Thomas Edison's early attempts to come up with the right material for a lightbulb. He tried a thousand different elements and all had failed. A colleague asked him if he felt his time had been wasted, since he had discovered nothing.

"Hardly," Edison is said to have retorted briskly. "I have discovered a thousand things that don't work."

Who knows what we would be using for light if it wasn't for the focused effort of Edison.

I think all pvpers can relate to the adrenaline rush you get when you are new to player versus player encounters. You don't know how things will turn out. Sometimes it is paralyzing, but as you gain more practice it will be second nature.

[Calculor]

Just to reiterate what Mort said-- power is cyclical and certainly unstable. It rises and falls on a very regular basis. The worst thing you can do as a player is become resentful about it-- treat it as IC, and I guarantee you that you will have more fun. Revel in the chaos! EfU has never been for the thin-skinned.

I will also reiterate the point about NPC support-- most of Olid's success has been entirely through his own efforts, with minimal DM support. I would encourage good-aligned PCs to form coherently and smartly into their own band-- power lies in groups, and so does most of the fun of EfU.