Rogue "perks"

[Talir]

Two-Faced
(Rogue)

You are a gifted orator and able to express yourself with precision. In situations where others would lose face, you are able to drop the mask and try the same argument again as if you were a completely different person.

+5 EFUSS Secondary Diplomacy.
Reroll any failed Bluff/Intimidate/Persuade checks made.

Lost in the Crowd
(Rogue)

There is something vaguely unrecognizeable about you. People describe you as ordinary and have a hard time remembering who you are. While this is a drawback for attaining any prestigious position, it also appears people forget grudges against you more easily.

Failing to pickpocket a merchant comes with no penalties.

Something more along those lines, maybe?

[Egon the Monkey]

The trouble with Rogue is it's a class that has very little unique to it at higher levels. All the good stuff other than the L10 feats, you can get with 3 levels spaced out right. No surprise that you see a lot of multiclassing. Gear can't fix that weaknesses, as it can be stolen, lost or just never turn up for your PC. Perks, free feats, and EfU Setting Bonuses can be planned for.

Next, don't get so hung up on Stealth. It helps, but it's by no means the definition of the class. Lots of Rangers on EFU abandon stealth, as do most Bards and many Rogue multiclasses. Stealth is also one of the most broken features in NWN, in that you can hide in front of someone in broad daylight and not be seen. Extra stealth bonuses would just make powerbuilds/app races even more ridiculous. Anything a Rogue can do, a PC with cross-class Open Lock/Disable Trap  can do well enough for most quests. The answer there's definitely not to  up the DCs to lock non-rogues out, that just reduces character  diversity. The answer's to give rogues more options.

Mort's thoughts on different styles of Rogue, like we have different Bard songs, is brilliant. I would definitely trade Sneak Attack or "thief" skills for different economic or tactical abilities. I played a very enjoyable and fairly successful Rogue who went around in  halfplate all the time. He took Rogue as a class for the social and  detection skills and large skillpoint pool, as I was playing a mercenary  officer, not a badass infantryman.

My ideas on these are below. I've deliberately suggested more abilities than might be balanced. Consider a perk where you'd get several of these at the cost of losing Sneak Attack/Stealth/trap disabling/etc.

Direct Combat Rogues
Skirmisher:
Penalised stealth, Open lock, Disable Trap.
While wearing no armor or shield, you add your Intelligence bonus to your AC as a Dodge Modifier.

Street Thug
-50 H/MS
+3 HP per 2 levels (effectively raising the HD to D8. Or use the RDD's Hit Die Increase feat)
5% DI
+1 AB

Sniper
Ability to manufacture your own ammunition that deals heavy damage to sneak-proof targets.  -1AB in melee.


"Smart" Rogues
Officer
All abilities would affect allies/enemies only, not the PC, requiring allies to listen.
"Take Them Down!" Damage Vulnerability on a single target for 2 rounds.
"Back Them Up!": Place beneficial aura on another friendly PC.

Engineer
Disassemble: +1d3/level Magical Damage against Constructs
Schematics: Your PC automatically gets the Alchemy recipes for several traps at L5 and 7.
Perfect Maintenance: Player Tool with 2/day Whetstone power.
Deploy Ballista: 1/day power to create a Repeater Crossbow, as per the scripted kit.
Natural Philosophy: +1 EFUSS Alchemy/Herbalism per level.
Deploy Construct: Power that works similarly to Animate Dead, creating a 24 hr summon upgradeable via chat menu.

Trader
Small Time Deals: Each rest, gain (CHA x INT) GP.
I've Got a Buyer: Player Tool that can destroy "vendor trash" items and low value "stolen" items for 10+2d6 GP, in "city" areas only. Would promote selling to PCs over NPC vendors.
Bribery: Option to spend GP for social skill bonuses on Persuade/Bluff.

[Damien]

while on the subject of sorting classes id like to see more sorceror perks like that bloodline idea that never came through for some reason

[One_With_Nature]

Imo to encourage people to use rogue as a pure build the class as a whole needs some kind of career structure through means of level progression bonuses, much like barbs uncapped rage and a druids new polymorph shapes.

The thing with rogues is that they are a very diverse class that has little in the way of making them unique in the field they choose to persue.
I have played rogues of various backgrounds and i have always multi-classed because of this lack of uniquness.

Heres just a suggestion to make rogues more unique while taking into account the efu:a setting (these are not perk suggestions, more like a system that could be introduced to offer diversity to pure rogues):

so i thought at level 5 rogues could choose a direction they want to go in and i could think of 4 main rogue professions..

Combat Rogue
through the toolset if possible have it so a rogue can choose a single weapon that he will become skilled with adding to his cobat skill through level progression.
Level 5: bonus feat weapon focus (chosen weapon)
Level 8: bonus feat weapon specialisation (chosen weapon)
Level 10: bonus feat improve critical (chosen weapon)

Diplomatic Rogue
Level 5: +5 skill points to persuade/intimidate/bluff
Level 8: (stolen from Talirs suggestion) Re-rolls on any intimidate/persuade/bluff checks.
Level 10: +1 charisma for every 5 efuss points invested in secondary diplomacy. (max +2)

Stealth Specialist Rogue
Level 5: bonus feats- stealthy, skill focus hide, skill focus move silently. (+5/+5)
Level 8: 10% movement increase and +3 to skills hide/move silently/pick pocket/search.
Level 10: epic speed 1/day

Jack of all trades Rougue
Level 5: +2 all class skills.
Level 8: +3 all class skills.
Level 10: +1 universal saves, bonus feat: skill mastery.  

I think something similar to this would make rogues more fun to play without making them too OP.

[BRESTON]

Having just picked iron lungs as my perk as a rogue, I can say this would be awesome. As long as I got a do-over for my perk.

[Egon the Monkey]

@OWN
They're missing something. All of them just add massive bonuses or 3 or more feats in the same area, without any drawbacks. They'd give you more firepower, but no flair. "Combat Rogue" for example gives a PC the same feats every Fighter takes, at no cost. Stealth Rogue would give +5 H/MS off 3 feats, plus close to a Trackless Step that works everywhere. Compare those to say, Ranger bonuses which are tied to other skills, like Tracking or situational to the wilds.

It'd be more useful for allowing pure rogues to prosper if you add unique stuff, or shore up their weak points so you don't feel the need to multiclass for defence or more weapons.

For example:

Combat Rogue:
Shield Proficiency.
Weapon Proficiency (Simple)
Skill Focus: Discipline
Skill Focus: Taunt
+3 HP per 2 levels
-5 Persuade, Bluff, Open Lock, Hide, Move Silently.

That gives you a good deal more survivability and a two handed weapon (spear) for direct combat. The opportunity to use a cross-class skill in a support role (taunt), and a defence against an easy win (Some more disc, vs KD). The trade-off is that sort of PC can't play as effective a thief or scout.

Investigator
+5 Spot/Search/Listen when not in a wilds area
Tracking
+10% Movement when not in the wilds.

Inverse ranger. Gives you the great RP and tactical uses of a Ranger's detection skills, but in an urban environment.

Bowslinger
Increased movement speed (as per Ranger)
Improved Critical (Shortbow, Sling, Dart, Light/Heavy Crossbow)
Called Shot
-1 Ab with melee weapons
-5 Persuade, Bluff, Open Lock.

A PC who can outrun pursuers rathern than shooting, then getting caught by a barb or monk. Can afford to take Called Shot instead of just Rapid Shot, and not have to go with Martial Weapons/Fighter for a longbow.

Two-Fisted Thug
Flurry of Blows
Imp Critical (Unarmed Strike)
-5 Persuade, +3 Intimidate
-30 H/MS

Doesn't sparkle in the sunshine.

@SC
Bag of Tricks is brilliant stuff, grenadelikes are fun, useful and way underused. I'd suggest making it always the more unusual stuff.

[VanillaPudding]

It was "perks" in the title for a reason, as that wasn't really the idea to improve them and I don't think these will really do that, as awesome as some of them are. Hopefully the internal talks are more along the lines of some mechanical buffs and not only a few random perks. <_<

[Mort]

I spoke as a player, mind you. I left the dm team. Just shooting some ideas.

I played a rogue back in the days that didn't really quest, had a 25gp  wage and I was broke all the time, but for other reasons. But I always wanted to play rogues as politicians, engineers, merchants (undercover mob guys of course!) that didn't bother principally with questing to gain stuff, but it's not viable or if it is, it's too time consuming (See Frum standing in the merchant zone for 4-5 hours a day trying to sell his stuff). I never felt it was viable to have a DM on demand for politics as part of a character agenda and these types of character would sort-of need that too.

Finally, I didn't find that any other classes but the rogue fit for these roles. Bard? It could... but it would require an artistic edge. Fighter? It could, but I wanted them to be cowards >_> and if I'm a fighter, I'll be forced to frontline and be badass at one point. Wizards/Sorcerors? It's easier as they dont need huge stat investment to be useful, but I never felt this class to be a merchant, politician, engineer theme class. Cleric of some Merchant deity? Could work, but most of them are played by lazy roleplayers (see lazy roleplayer as responding to the roleplay guidelines with the bare minimum) that tainted this combination for me.

So, a mechanic to encourage these sort-of characters would be interesting in my opinion as they are usually interesting movers and shakers of EFU.

[One_With_Nature]

If the idea is to encourage people to play rogue as a pure class i think they would need a mechanical boost on account of the advantages of multi-classing. Some of the perks that have been suggested sound good but nothing that would make me want to play a pure rogue over a say a ranger/rogue or fighter/rogue. Even a diplomatic character i would choose bard over rogue.

[BRESTON]

Merum Twind is a pure rogue, not gonna change.

[Kinslayer988]

I'd like to add special bonuses and turn the rogue into sub-class, as it says rogues can be scouts, mercenaries, tacticians, thugs, informants, merchants, and many more things.

Leader's Vigor
You are always the one shouting orders, and nobody denies that. Although most would not care, you still seem to have an effect on them. However after focusing on command you seem to have less of a focus on killing.
(Gives you a longhorn that has rallying cry 3x/day at lv5, then at lv7/9 gives 1x/day last stand if that is not too OP. No sneak attacks.)

Average Thug
You always have been tougher than most kids growing up. You have become a bad seed and often commit violent tendencies.
(Boost AB +2, -20 Hide/MS, Intimidate +3, bonus 2 hit points every level)

I'm not the best with making perks so feel free to make some changes.

[VanillaPudding]

I think you'll have a hard time finding much that people would take over sneak attack itself. Naga probably has the closest vision to that, and those seem rather overpowered since they are not situational!

[BRESTON]

I think pure rogues would be better off if bilbys was made pure rogue only, doable unlimited times and all bilbys equipment was pure rogue only no umd *cough* Since it can give alot of perks to anyone who uses it, like ranger feats for the knuckle axes. Amazing skill bonuses for good quality stuff.

Make that our specialization.

[Nihm]

Swashbuckler :weapon focus : Rapier, Weapon Specialization : Rapier, Improved Critical : Rapier, plus one Parry per level, Blinding Speed/day.  Drawbacks are no sneak attack, -50 to Use Magic Device, Hide and Move Silently.  This is a lighter version of a weapon master who can still perform basic rogue functions for the party.
 
Enforcer / Thug : Epic Weapon Specialization : Club, Epic Toughness (plus 20 hp).  Drawbacks : same as the Swashbuckler.

[Seanzie]

Playing a pure rogue, evil b*tich, I would like to ask that we hurry it up on these rogue perks. Because I haven't picked a perk yet, waiting for one of these, and don't forget, usually people play a rogue when they want to be evil. Or do something.. Witty, impressive, fighting is fun and all, but it's not very good, a lot of things have undead, snakes, and other immunities to sneak attacks. The RP value to being a rogue is almost enough. But I would enjoy some spice to rogues. As the perks you've all posted. But I don't know if the DMs forgot about this post or not... So I'm here asking for it to be brought to attention again! Thanks!