Philosophy of Evil

[azurerogue]

I think an important point, regarding Paladins, is that Detect Evil is not supposed to show you exactly who/what is evil without several rounds of concentration (18 seconds).  Presumably this form of concentration would be visible to anyone paying attention (an intent stare with a hint of magic to it - maybe only with spellcraft checks, then?).  If an evil character sees a Paladin focusing and perhaps beginning to localize auras with their ability they would most likely high tail it out of there before the Paladin could identify them fully.  More importantly, most Paladins should have a strict enough moral code to not then risk falsely accusing the wrong individual in the event they could not absolutely identify the source of an evil aura.

Regarding the actual debate regarding the nature of Evil in D&D...

I'd be careful pushing the "your character is evil, so you are awful" argument too far.  Chaotic good characters can do bad things, at times, in pursuit of a good end - even in the long term.  Similarly, a lawful evil character may not commit one single evil act while on the Archipelago because their overall nature that defines them as evil does not dictate that they act in an evil fashion in a new place.

Evil does not mean stupid.  An evil character could be ruthless, unconcerned with others, and manipulative but if she is never put in a situation where that matters then there would be no reason to suspect her of being evil.  My hypothetical evil character, if forced to flee the city, may be willing to leave a friend for dead, silently kill two guards on the way out, and rob a caravan to get money to pay for passage out of the area - but if she is never forced to flee she could live peacefully with others without problems.  Being evil does NOT mean being committed to doing evil - it can sometimes mean an intentional willingness to do evil if it makes sense...  but evil characters can perform neutral acts just like good characters can.

EDIT: I will admit, it is much harder to justify a CE character who never commits an evil act than it is a LE or NE character.

[derfo]

i hate alignments

[Calavera]

I think if we have a mass influx of evil characters who cackle madly while killing just about everything that moves while twirling their moustache in a sinister manner, things will get pretty boring.
...

TOTALLY NOT AGREE!

this would be so awesome.

[GoblinSapper]

TOTALLY NOT AGREE!
 
this would be so awesome.

Next PC idea, an insane villain who twirls his mustache and speaks audibly about his plans, right infront of people, to comedic effect.

[Giselle123]

Next PC idea, an insane villain who twirls his mustache and speaks audibly about his plans, right infront of people, to comedic effect.

You're going to play a Stygian PC?
 
Seriously though, this topic was long derailed and dead; participating in thread necromancy is legal in the dominion but that dosen't make it a good idea.

[The Beggar]

Thread Necromancy is Evil.

So is +1.

+1.

[MrGrendel]

Since it liiiives, here are my two cents, just because I can.
 
About Good and Evil:
 
Good is altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Evil is hurting, killing or oppressing others. Good characters might make personal sacrifices for others. Evil characters would sacrifice others for their own gain.
 
LE, NE and CE:
 
If your character commits evil deeds for the sake of a code or twisted personal beliefs he adheres to strongly, he tends towards Lawful Evil.
 
If your character commits evil deeds for the main purpose of benefitting himself over society, he tends towards Neutral Evil.
 
If your character commits evil deeds for the sake of destruction and evil itself, he tends towards Chaotic Evil.
 
About Detect Evil:
 
1. While, for game purposes, there is a definition of evil that is not morally relative, In-Character this mechanic is not necessarily obvious. I would expect the general populace would be far more likely to view things in shades of grey, particularly in a polytheistic society that worships evil as well as good deities as a necessary part of the pantheon. For these reasons, if I were a paladin, realistically, I'd be cautious about spouting out "This guy is evil!" on seeing some stranger as seems to be the norm. I'd expect that to mostly get funny looks along the lines of "oh great, another crazy cat lady."
 
2. Going to source PnP, the detect evil ability is less foolproof than in EfUA. Very evil events can 'impress' things around it with a lingering evil aura. Entire areas can have evil auras. People's auras can be altered magically. Objects people carry can be imbued with evil auras or alter the wearer's aura. And so forth. Regretful (or as someone here stated, unintentional) actions that are well in the past may leave the aura on a character who will never again do an evil deed in their life.
 
About your Good-Evil points:
 
Just an over-simplified way to keep track. Don't worry about it too much, play your character to the best of your ability. :)

[Divine Intervention]

For simplicity's sake, try calling it "Them" and "Us".

[TheImpossibleDream]

Idenitifying evil traits in a character in D&D

Step 1: Check character sheet for the word Evil

Following these simple steps will help you identify whether or not your character has commited an evil act and whether or not a paladin in this setting can quest with you.

The whole paladin debate sneaking in is sort of meh! Howland has said pretty clearly he wants paladins to be a certain way in his setting. In D&D dm's have always had thier own custom homebrew rules and efu is no different! So no matter what your source books, your bible or your mother tells you. It's going to work the way its worked so well for so long!

[azurerogue]

My favorite part of the rules is that a Paladin can not KNOWINGLY quest with evil characters...  but Detect Evil is an active, not passive, ability.  So, both IC and OOC, if a Paladin wants to be friends with more people he can simply choose not to activate the ability.  That way, unless his party members / friends commit evil acts in front of him (who would DO that?), he can be friends with EVERYONE!  Yay!

[RagingPurpleGiant]

Refusing to detect evil in order to hang out with evil people doesn't really sound like a very paladinly thing to do. Purity of his soul > Number of evil friends.

[SkillFocuspwn]

Pretty obviously if you just don't detect evil to make friends with baddies you're going to lose your Paladin abilities. Laziness is not an excuse!

[MrGrendel]

1. Not using your paladin DE ability is no excuse.
 
2. The topic post of this thread discussed paladins, so I was addressing the original post. Nothing got "sneaked in." Either way, it touches on evil in the FR.
 
3. I'm not saying you should not abide by what the DMs say about how to RP paladins here, and as far as I can tell nothing I wrote contradicts these guidelines. Paladins should work against evil, and not help them, not party with them, etc.
 
What I am trying to get at is the attitude one would realistically expect from the population in FR and EfU, and how a paladin's reaction to evil would be shaped by this. The attitude is not necessarily one of good vs evil - consider this:
 
The population, even good-aligned people, worships evil deities on a regular basis. They are polytheistic and more pragmatic than us. You worship different gods because that works. They are all equally real, and all infinitely more powerful than a mortal when in their domain.
 
A paladin who trumpets about the priest of Malar being evil is likely just going to get wierd looks from the villagers, before they sit down at their table to eat their venison and thank Malar for a successful hunt. They already know Malar does some awful things, and so most likely do his priests, but the effect of this behaviour is just going to make the paladin look eccentric and hinder him instead of the evil priest.
 
It might make sense to behave this way from a christian perspective, but in my opinion it's not a very FR attitude, and paladins should be aware of it. It would be far better to relate your anti-evil work to specific deeds and motives rather than the generic "he is Evil." People in the FR care less about "he is Evil," than "this works" or "he is our enemy because ___", or they would not be worshipping incredibly evil gods.

[azurerogue]

My point wasn't to ignore the DE ability, but I don't think most reasonable intelligent beings would spend their free time using a supernatural ability to check out every person they encounter.  If someone is acting in a socially acceptable way what reason would a Paladin have to use the ability?

[GoblinSapper]

1. Not using your paladin DE ability is no excuse.
 
2. The topic post of this thread discussed paladins, so I was addressing the original post. Nothing got "sneaked in." Either way, it touches on evil in the FR.
 
3. I'm not saying you should not abide by what the DMs say about how to RP paladins here, and as far as I can tell nothing I wrote contradicts these guidelines. Paladins should work against evil, and not help them, not party with them, etc.
 
What I am trying to get at is the attitude one would realistically expect from the population in FR and EfU, and how a paladin's reaction to evil would be shaped by this. The attitude is not necessarily one of good vs evil - consider this:
 
The population, even good-aligned people, worships evil deities on a regular basis. They are polytheistic and more pragmatic than us. You worship different gods because that works. They are all equally real, and all infinitely more powerful than a mortal when in their domain.
 
A paladin who trumpets about the priest of Malar being evil is likely just going to get wierd looks from the villagers, before they sit down at their table to eat their venison and thank Malar for a successful hunt. They already know Malar does some awful things, and so most likely do his priests, but the effect of this behaviour is just going to make the paladin look eccentric and hinder him instead of the evil priest.
 
It might make sense to behave this way from a christian perspective, but in my opinion it's not a very FR attitude, and paladins should be aware of it. It would be far better to relate your anti-evil work to specific deeds and motives rather than the generic "he is Evil." People in the FR care less about "he is Evil," than "this works" or "he is our enemy because ___", or they would not be worshipping incredibly evil gods.

I agree, Paladins should be held with something to a degree of awe and fear. Many people love paladins for what they represent, but hate them for not doing what they expect a bastion of good to do - or worse, for doing it. Paladins are on the outside, enduring things so the common folk don't have to.
 
And evil dieties being regularly invoked is true. Beshaba is constantly invoked at important events if for no other reason then to placate her wrath.