More time before Alchemy hostile summons

[Egon the Monkey]

Since the change that effectively bolts you to the bench during crafting, some of the alchemy failure summons from even recipes using fairly common reagents are a death sentence, unless you surround yourself with summons as a fence to give you time to invis as soon as it appears and not get AoOed. You can't invis beforehand as the failure breaks invis. You can have a hair trigger on the invis, set up distractions and hope to be lucky, but only if you know the result is likely to fail. When you run across a recipe you've got no clue it could blow your head off, and by the time you read the "you have summoned something by accident" warning, it's clawing your PC's face off.

On a recent recipe I found, summons range fom Magma Mephits (meh), to a Slaad that smacked me down through full buffs, then went on to crush the L9 fighter next to me in 2 rounds. I think it would be an improvement if you had an animation play for one to two rounds before the summon ports in, as an "oh shit" warning for you to start to get out the way. Or for mistakes to not break invisibility. On medium level recipes, unless you're a complete crafting powerbuild or totally looted up, you'll fail a good deal of the time, and the risk's too high for the reward. Previously, canny alchemists got the hell away from the table before the reaction finished, which was too protective. Now though, it's no escape from a lot of things.

These summons are a double whammy, as low level experimenters are both more likely to run across them due to failures and more likely to get killed.

[Nihm]

Now though, it's no escape from a lot of things.

These summons are a double whammy, as low level experimenters are both more likely to run across them due to failures and more likely to get killed.

The possibility to die from alchemy is what allows seperation between pcs who really want to do it despite the risks, and those who would do it if no risks were present.  Does it really matter if the death was from a summoned creature, direct damage, or a failed save? What's the difference?
 
Alchemy as it is now carries three requirements, the skill ranks themselves, the reagents, and the willingness to accept that occasionally an experiment is going to be fatal.  This third requirement is an important and defining one for many reasons.
 
And what is the point of even having planar creatures spawn to attack the alchemist if there's enough delay for him to be warned and leave the area before they arrive?
 
Your second point made me laugh.  Low level experimenters are not risking any xp that cannot be made up with a day or two of quests.  The high level experimenter is the one risking more xp than they could ever make up if they fail.
 
I think the system as it currently is should remain as is.  Sometimes the alchemist will explode, drop dead, or be mauled by a creature - thats' as it should be imo.

[Gippy]

I think Nihm hit all the key points here.

[Egon the Monkey]

The possibility to die from alchemy is what allows seperation between pcs who really want to do it despite the risks, and those who would do it if no risks were present.  Does it really matter if the death was from a summoned creature, direct damage, or a failed save? What's the difference?

Damage can be warded against to a good degree. Save gear can be hoarded. You can ask a friendly cleric to Deathward you. That brings in other people, RP for assistance Stuff that appears right in mauling range, has huge AB and dmg and breaks your invis when it turns up is rather hard to counter. Risks, fine if you can see them coming, but you've no idea if a recipe's in your range. One recipe for booze is only 2 reagents different to OMGPLANAR. I suppose I'll start working in Extended Darkness then. That's not wierd at all. XD

And what is the point of even having planar creatures spawn to attack the alchemist if there's enough delay for him to be warned and leave the area before they arrive?

Because if you don't have enough delay to buff up even more/invis/etc it's a damn one-sided fight. 6 seconds grace would be enough time to prepare a head start or call a hired goon to buff for a counter-strike but you'd still have to get clear or kill it. I'd used 3 fairly common reagents and got an insanely powerful Slaad on me. If you could see the danger coming with just enough time to use a defence or shout a warning, fair enough. You won't be gambling on that recipe again.
Challenges where you can admit you made a tactical error or a poor gamble aren't frustrating. Sudden straight out of the blue smashings are when you have EfU:A stakes and you're not obviously working on something high level and dangerous really are.

I think the system as it currently is should remain as is.  Sometimes  the alchemist will explode, drop dead, or be mauled by a creature -  thats' as it should be imo.

Well, IMO, you should have a chance to see a failure coming and hit the deck when it's a creature hauling through a portal. Spells have a delay, at least. Being able to throw things in the table then leg it to the other side of the map was too easy to avoid risks with. Being tied to the table with no warning of where you're heading, that's just irritating. I notice your PC hasn't exploded yet, so it seems you do try and defend against failure.

[The Boom King]

I think if we look at it from the standpoint of having 4-6 seconds to prepare for a nasty summon, and that being the only change, it doesn't seem so bad.

[PlayaCharacter]

Reading this thread makes the new alchemy system sound very unappealing to me. A system that handcuffs you to a placeable that spawns impossibly difficult monsters sounds completely ridiculous and in no way conducive to having fun.

No, thanks.

[Garem]

PC, results not typical. But they are hysterical.

[Paha]

It does not handcuff you or anything. You can bail anytime you want, and the results and failures these folk are talking about, usually also involve great possibility of valuable success.

The benefits and gains require equal risks. If something amazing can happen, something horrible may also occur.

[Nihm]

Damage can be warded against to a good degree. Save gear can be hoarded. You can ask a friendly cleric to Deathward you.

Yes, or a friendly cleric to Stoneskin you, or summon guards for you, or whatnot.  You can take these precautions against other hazards and against planar creature attacks too.  They won't always be enough to save you, but neither will the other sorts of precautions either.  
 

Risks, fine if you can see them coming, but you've no idea if a recipe's in your range. One recipe for booze is only 2 reagents different to OMGPLANAR.

You're mistaken about how Alchemy works then, I would suggest learning more about it in-game.  Maybe your pc can learn from this and seek advice to avoid it happening again, which can be done easily.
 

6 seconds grace would be enough time to prepare a head start

This is almost as bad as the days when people could start the reaction and run across the map before it finished, and it really nullifies the point of even having alchemy spawns.
 

A system that handcuffs you to a placeable that spawns impossibly difficult monsters
[/QUOTE
 
This is not how it works.  You are not stuck in place while monsters are hitting you unless they can disable your movement themselves.  The moment the reaction concludes your character is free to run.
 

I notice your PC hasn't exploded yet, so it seems you do try and defend against failure.

You know nothing about whether my pc has or hasn't exploded, and of course she attempts to guard against failure, everyone should.  Sometimes those precautions won't be enough and you will still die.  Sometimes you'll do everything possible and still die.
 
However this is how Alchemy is meant to be.

[Nightshadow]

Adam Corona had 3-5 extended summon monster 1's and 2's out, stoneskin, invisibility, and typically a stoneskin'd fighter nearby. He also had protection from all alignments up when he was doing alchemy. I never died once, though to be fair I didn't do much alchemy, but when I did it was always blind experimentation with a lot of different things, some common, some valuable.

Summons, darkness/ultravision (makes perfect sense, seriously), invis, stoneskin, etc., all help. In the end, though... Shit Happens

[Gippy]

You are exploring uncharted regions of powerful magical forces, the rewards are great, and the dangers are great. It is not for the faint of heart. If you're too cowardly to take the risks then buy good recipes or coerce them out of people.

[Nightshadow]

Just think of it as another quest. Lots of loot, little XP, high chance of dying one or more times.

[Underbard]

Sounds like something for a seasoned veteran.  Hate to think what would be going through the mind of a new player to the server.

[Nightshadow]

I know of a druid who I once handed 5 bags full of sinew, guts, scales and other things, told her how to set up the herbalism thing, and within a week people were hunting her down to get her to make all sorts of interesting, powerful things, and to my knowledge it was her first character on the server. Whether you are a veteran or newbie, you can do this. Everyone started off as a newbie when this system first came out, anyway, veteran or not.

[VanillaPudding]

Alchemy as it is now carries three requirements, the skill ranks themselves, the reagents, and the willingness to accept that occasionally an experiment is going to be fatal. This third requirement is an important and defining one for many reasons.

I agree with the OP and basically quit using the new systems because I died twice by being locked to the table -while something with massive AB hit me- , not after. The timer is too long and basically unfair in that respect only. Otherwise this system is pretty amazing.