Recent Big Changes - Discussion

[Howlando]

A lot of work under the hood has gone on recently (with big thanks to Johannes for outstanding scripting!), that I wanted to make you guys aware of.

1 - We now have a lot more flexibility in terms of making custom, scripted loot. Basically we can make items with a unique power effect without making a particular script for it, basically doing it all through a web interface. It's very cool and as a consequence you might start to see more unique to efu stuff.

2 - Part of that system includes drugs. Basically these are consumeables that can have various bonuses/drawbacks. They will generally also lead to the possibility of addiction and severe withdrawal. Please keep an eye out for bugs with this, and feel free to make suggestions about any concerns. Note: We're not interested in seeing "bad" RP related to that, like cheesy "Oh I'm SO high!" silly stoner stuff. Of course you should RP the consequences of what your character is experiencing, but it should be done tastefully and in a setting appropriate way.

3 - Pretty much all temporary summons have been adjusted to be 1 HD now. This was done primarily to keep our invasion-quest from breaking with too many spawns as well as standard quests. Additionally, they've virtually all been tweaked in their abilities and powers. HPs, AC, saves, BAB, attacks/round, abilities, etc. should all be adjusted either manually or through scripting. However! Please keep an eye out for bugs or imbalances, and feel free to make comments in the exploitable bug reports forum. Note: don't trust the character sheet, it may be misleading

4 - Some various spell changes have been made, including fixing evard's so immunity: evard's black tentacles correctly makes you immune as well as making SR count against it. Color Spray also has the same effect regardless of HD.

5 - A lot of quests are in the process of being adjusted, particularly as regards risk/reward. Since this is more easily adjusted now, expect quests that we see being done a lot to have their XP reduced... and quests that are done less often to have theirs increased.

[Dr Dragon]

I am all in favor of these changes TBH.

For one the drug system is pretty awesome I was suprised....There also should be some sort of way to design and make drugs for our alchemical/herbalist friends.

And more unique loot is awesome.

[Vlaid]

Well, since this thread is labaled "Discussion" I will just go down the list with my own thoughts on these interesting changes!

1) Very cool. More, better, nastier custom loot is always better!

2) I'm kind of indifferent about this. I've never exactly been a huge fan of drugs beyond grass/tobacco/alchohol in my fantasy games, but if it fits the setting, more power to those who choose to delve into it!

3) I'm a little unsure how this works. If they only have 1HD does this mean all summons are exceptionally easy to turn, have very small AB/APR/HP?

4) So color spray has been changed to always stun then, or always blind?

5) I'm a little iffy about this personally. This will typically only hurt the "Average" player, or the player that has difficulty with harder quests. I don't have access to every player's EFUSL obviously, but I would think the more skilled players would just continue romping through the harder quests unaffected by this. In my eyes I have always seen the easier quests vs the harder quests as catering to the vast skill difference you sometimes get between players.

To expand on that, there was some interesting discussion going on in IRC on the subject. One point that came up is that perhaps it would be more fair to balance quest XP at the player level rather than the quest level and have collateral damage. Ie, have quest XP affected by EFUSl stats.

If you quest a lot, you get less XP per quest
If you rarely die, you get less XP per quest
If you do the same quests every reset, the quests you do most frequently begin to offer less XP per quest.

If you rarely quest, you get more XP per quest
If you die frequently, you get more XP per quest
If you do a variety of quests and rarely stick to just the safe ones, more XP per quest.

Just some suggestions I thought were interesting out of the IRC discussion I saw.

[putrid_plum]

I like msot of the changes.  The XP nerf to me just sounds like, "Since player A cannot make it to L9 we should make it harder for player B." Which seems a backward way of fixing a problem to me.  It will also make certain quests never done, or hardly at all, like Jergal.  I very much think there could be a better way to address this issue.

[Paha]

All good. To me it makes sense that the common quests around give a little less exp, and the more effort/travel/rarer ones give a bit more experience. It doesn't hurt people in my eyes, it simply pays as it should for the time spend. This only little bit slows the normal leveling with common every-day quests, and that's not so bad thing.

[Drakill Tannan]

I agree with paha, and support the change. I'd like to see less people doing orcs 1, granary goblins and troglodtes and isntead go do something more risky, or at least rare, such as flayers, the quest in the lagoon, etc.

EDIT: btw, what happened to elemental summons? If all are HD 1, have new models been made for each summon creature spell? Or are thouse an exception and remain at more than 1 HD?

[Howlando]

For one the drug system is pretty awesome I was suprised....There also should be some sort of way to design and make drugs for our alchemical/herbalist friends.

There is already.

3) I'm a little unsure how this works. If they only have 1HD does this mean all summons are exceptionally easy to turn, have very small AB/APR/HP

I suggest you work on your reading comprehension. All stats have been adjusted properly through scripting so they're appropriately powerful. Furthermore, things like Turn Dead and the different spells that have different effects that vary by HD have been adjusted to correctly act on summons. Of course more adjustments may be or needed or we may have missed something, so feel free to let us know.

4) So color spray has been changed to always stun then, or always blind?

Always stun.

5) I'm a little iffy about this personally. This will typically only hurt the "Average" player, or the player that has difficulty with harder quests. I don't have access to every player's EFUSL obviously, but I would think the more skilled players would just continue romping through the harder quests unaffected by this. In my eyes I have always seen the easier quests vs the harder quests as catering to the vast skill difference you sometimes get between players.

This only affects end quest XP/gold (which is heavily randomized anyway), so actually isn't that big of a change. I'm just alerting you guys to the fact that quests we don't see being done much (perhaps because it's further away) will be more rewarding and ones that are being spammed will become slightly less rewarding.

EDIT: btw, what happened to elemental summons? If all are HD 1, have new models been made for each summon creature spell? Or are thouse an exception and remain at more than 1 HD?

The elemental and other discount themes (such as snakes, shadows, insects...) remain at 1 HD but have their saves/AC/attacks/damage/etc. adjusted by summon level.

[Garem]

Good stuff.

The drug system is something I've always been hesitant about, but hell, let's see what happens.

[fizzt]

I think lowering the HD of summons was a great idea, so as not to make spawns become ridiculous, however, higher level melee summons, like the illusory doom knight, lose an attack per round, which is quite a large nerf to them. One workaround could be to lower their AC by 4, as well as their movement speed and give them perma haste, this way they'd get that extra action back without running their way about all willy-nilly with blinding speed.

[Drakill Tannan]

Animates can be given aditional attacks per round without incresing their levels. I had assumed the same would be done with, say, doom knights or erineyes

[Fingersmith]

Why does SR count against Evard's? It's one of very few spells that can bypass spell resistance, and that is part of its appeal.

[Drakill Tannan]

Probably a balance issue. I guess it was too strong in PvP.

[Disco]

Im all for these changes. But regarding the drugs you imo get addicted a wee bit too fast. Do them once and your hooked is way too fast imo. Make it atleast a cupple of times.

[Howlando]

I think lowering the HD of summons was a great idea, so as not to make spawns become ridiculous, however, higher level melee summons, like the illusory doom knight, lose an attack per round, which is quite a large nerf to them.

How many times is it necessary for me to type that we set the attacks per round via scripting? Illusory Doom Knights and all other level 4 summons still have 2 attacks/round.

[Nightshadow]

At least 5 more times. *nods*

lol, I like it, particularly that bit about color spray. Not a fan of Evard's no longer bypassing SR, though, or even the idea of spell resistance in general. Of course, what few SR items there are are only like SR 10, and you need to be 7 or 8 before you can cast this so it's not such a big deal, as SR is usually low or rare