A shame to remove party system

[Lenthis]

Rouge: They will never see me with my new +5 ms and hide boots "Evil chuckle"
 
Ranger: I dont see him.. Wait whats that- A line of magicaly appearing junk items?

[Jasede]

If i remember right, the sistem was removed to allow greater inmersion. That is an advantage for hardcore RPers, many on EFU are, so it sounds like it was a good idea to implement.

Now we just need permanent death instead of possible respawns, insta-ban on using // in-game, a required amount of food/water per day, removal of tells, removal of seeing other character's names and we'll be like Armageddon MUCK! Maybe we should remove graphics too, for greater immersion.

Though I guess the no-party system has been working out okay, with the one exception that it makes me get lost 200% of the time as I have to run a small resolution, so all my characters are permanently near-sighted. That, or very clingy so as not to lose sight of the leader. The sacrifices we make!

[superfly2000]

I think Jasede, even with a touch of irony, actually describes a little what I wanted to come to.
 
The thing is...if we think we are some kind of ubra roleplayers who never even metagame the least we are starting a discussion that will probably end up removing most of how the game works.
 
I say roleplaying...sure...but not at the cost of removing vital default systems.
 
If I continue where Jasede left of let us remove the mini-map, which is clearly metagaming the way you are seeing it. Then that you can use examine on most of the things in game is also naturally metagaming. That you can see your own healthbar is metagming. That you can view the world from a 3:rd person view is naturally also metagaming. I mean who in real life can see their own back and then even jolt around the camera like that to even reveal monsters behinds walls and who knows what else.
 
The inventory system is not immersive enough. Many items don't have a weight at all and you can easily tuck your greatsword into your invisible backpack.
 
What I am trying to say is...let us not forget that this is a game and lets not remove vital systems from the game so some can sleep better because they felt they metagamed less.
 
I mean really...if you now are so good roleplayers...why are you looking at the player list before logging in? Just don't look at it if you are so afraid of metagaming. The decision if to metagame or not is always up to you. Most of the time the one who draws the boundaries on it is also you...so it is not appropriate to discuss this with others.
 
One thing I hate while playing is players sending tells with "How could you know that...you are clearly metagaming"...so...instead of thinking of their own roleplaying they actually broke to OOC just to inform the other player of that. I have no respect for such players.
 
Ok. That was a little paranthesis but anyway. We where talking about roleplaying. So lets complicate things.
 
Let us try to understand why Bioware made the game like it is. Let us say you are a real person now in the game and everything is like in real life. First you have 5 senses, which you don't have in the game. Seeing, hearing, communicating and virtually everything works a hell of a lot faster in real life than in the game. Because in the game you are confined to just what the game engine feeds you. So you are very limited when communcating for example...but thats just for starters.
 
So..to actually make the game playable some "giveaways" have to be made.
 
The third person view which was pretty much introduced in Baldur's Gate is a wonderful way of making it easier to see and interact with your fellow players but also to see the world.
 
 
PS. To the developers/admins: please don't take me or my suggestions too seriously. I really don't play here so much and we can clearly see that most players not only are happy with the change but they have also gotten used to it.
 
For me personally the party mode (and player list on logon) is quite important but seeing I am clearly in minority here I will try to leave this subject now.
 
It is however my right to say this and probably you are also thankful to get my oppinion. DS.

[Drakill Tannan]

You know, i agreee 90% with what you said. I enjoy EFU as a game, and sometimes get slightly irritated when some people consider it more than a game and begin taking it too serously or suddently are angered by us "Breaking inmersion".

However, they have the right to do so. I enjoy playing efu on window mode and in the meantime i have msn, facebook, a random forum and also send tells. They enjoy playing full screen mode, with the game's music and pressing the "h" key for total inmersion, and.. i'm fine with it! It doesn't bother me (mostly) so why opose it? it's not forcefull.

Now, i know where you're getting at. Indeed i'd hate it to suddently have a food/water system, "realistic" inventory, etc. to make it more real. To me it's a game, to them it might increse fun but will make me miserable. The no-party sistem was meant to reduce metagaiming, yes, but mostly it was to do so in PvP, weather DMs and PLayers admit it or not, a huge amount of the decitions taken here are to "balance" PvP, the party sistem allowed you to know wher your party members where at all times, allwing you to hurry to their rescue like a gallant knight from PvP, as far as i understand. Because else, it didn't do much, one could always press the "H" key anyway.

The thing is, little changed tbh. Stealthing in group is a pain in the ass, since sometimes the PC basses behind a tree stealthed and the rest can't see them again without making a check (Cornersneak bug), so it's not as simple as unstealthing in a transition, wich can also kill you btw if you do. That's about it. Everything else is the same when you analize it, you can easily adapt and you won't even notice. It incresed "inmersioN" and reduced metagaming and doesn't bother me, why complain at all?

[Johannes]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

[Snoteye]

This thread brings back memories.

[Howlando]

I don't think anyone wants excessive realism but the no party system makes things more fun. It isn't just about closing down metagaming or issues with PvP (although that is a bonus), but for many players it is just more fun to play this way.

Of course "fun" is subjective and I can understand it might be frustrating for those with horrible computers.

[Dr Dragon]

I remember when the party system first turned off and everyone was going crazy. But I think its awesome the only thing it isnt awesome for is sneaks and wizards going out to do reconnaissance/exploration via sneaking/invisibility.

[derfo]

while i don't really care for realism arguments, i think it's pretty good invisible people can't be seen

also, if the lack of a party system has that drastic of an effect on perception of the game, you should question what you spend your time looking at while you play. suddenly the lack of some little pictures and health bars destroys the game for you? lol

[Johannes]

I find that needing to bother with party invites is just annoying too.

[Jayde Moon]

There's no good answer to the party stealthing thing.  Meeting up at transition and dropping 'this way' items is all well and good, but doesn't help if I'm a bit straggled out and then something busts my stealth and I get bushwhacked in the middle of an area by something nasty.

It makes IC sense that a group would reasonably know where eachother were, if they were a group and would be close enough to aid.

That said, relative to the nature of EfU, removal of party system has more benefits than negatives.

[ExileStrife]

I think it makes IC sense that it would be HARD to move together as a group and maintain perfect stealth.  How do you know where everyone is without letting your enemies know?

[SawyerTheCleaner]

There are always those instances where you begin stealth as a group in each other's line of sight but you then pass by a large rock or something, break line of sight, and never see your party till all Hells break loose...

[superfly2000]

I think this thread is pretty much done.
 
If you want to discuss stealth problems please create a new thread.
 
We don't need ninjas in this thread...

[Jayde Moon]