Remove Full Damage as a Subdual Option completely.

[prestonhunt]

There are just too many really good plot ideas that have died prematurely to a poorly justified ganking, or to a first encounter PVP, or to any of the myriad situations that pop up in which people justify ending another players character.

Why do we need a DM to chop off a players hand, but we dont need one to FD someone?  Why do we need a DM to keep someone for ransom, but no DM to just off them?  It's no wonder so many PCs are ended.  It's far easier to do.

Now, I submit that because all of these other situations cannot be made as simple as FDing someone, that instead we make FDing someone as hard as all these other situations.

In other words, remove the FD option completely from players grasp, and make it so that a DM is required to change you to FD mode if you want to kill someone outright.  In this manner, there will at least be some small amount of oversight over the reasons WHY PCs are slain, and maybe there will even be a little more "cool" things happening to them, rather than an outright gank+FD.

Discuss.

[Random_White_Guy]

Sometimes death is justified on a first PvP Run in.

Otherwise though it's an interesting idea to discuss.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

What if your an assassin hired to kill someone, and no dm is available?

It's a good idea, but it has the same problem as making a DM required to be present for every showdown of PvP.

[prestonhunt]

Simple solution Thomas.  Hire more DMs.

[E_Buddhist]

The reason that DMs are needed for hands being cut off, ransoms being held, and other similar cases is because there's no mechanic in the NWN engine to "police"/enforce fairness and rule followering. In a sense, the DMs make up and decide upon the "rules" on the spot in these situations. You can't ask the faceless, unfeeling, number crunching server to make a decision and have everyone involved bound by it.
 
Despite all that, I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very tempted to agree with this suggestion.
 
But I'm still hesistant to do so.
 
What if a defeated PC wants to be FDed? What if it would just be strangely awkward for a PC not to FD another defeated PC? There are some players who are more than mature and responsible enough in how they treat FD and their fellow players, I would hate to see them restricted.

[prestonhunt]

Make it a challenge / response dialogue then, like adding a player to a quest.

"XXX has decided to FD you.  Do you agree?"

[E_Buddhist]

That's a good point.
 
And also incredibly hilarious.

[prestonhunt]

A mature player would use it properly.  If they felt that they had their FD coming to them, they'd say "Yes".  If they didnt, they'd let a DM sort it out.

[E_Buddhist]

I wasn't being sarcastic or anything!
 
I just thought it was funny in a macabre, twisted sort of way, having someone ask for permission to kill you xD

[Nihm]

Pros :
 
1. Players who don't feel comfortable with the possiblity of an abrupt ending for their pcs might come to play here, or return to play here, but I doubt anyone will leave because full damage becomes more inconvenient to obtain.
 
2. Oversight by a (hopefully) neutral third person makes fairness in full damaging a lot more likely.
 
3. Players will be more willing to put effort into backgrounds, relationships and roleplay if they know they can not cheaply lose that pc for little reason.
 
Cons :
 
1. Metaknowledge of knowing when a Dm isn't on is going to make people more cocky and fearless.  Actually, pvp in a non-dm time would probably become a total joke.
 
2. People who feel their death was unwarranted will now blame the Dm overseeing rather than the player.

[Nihm]

I think this idea is interesting and might be worth trying for a short trial period to see how it worked.
 
Alternatively, premeditated intentions of full damage could require a short application.

[Buns in the Oven]

Plus it would disallow for FDing griefers!

[SkillFocuspwn]

Being completely unable to FD somebody when there's no DM on would to me seem like a much bigger problem than the fact that people believe FDing is too common. You may as well not have enemies if you're in a non-DM friendly time and this would require for a DM for a lot of serious plot progression, which would in my eyes make playing when DMs aren't around even more difficult.

A good idea and if DMs were always available without fail, I would fully support it. But it just seems far too much trouble in my eyes.

[UnholyWon]

I've had several FD permas that i wanted to dispute, but in end all my characters had it coming when I rationalized all the plotting and enemies made out.

Plots never die, they just get lowered to a simmer. Its up to a new PC to pick up the plot and move along with it. Every player is a star here, just got to be willing to run with the ball when it falls into your hands.

To justify removing FD would be to much work, either you want DMs to be around supervising the "Awesome" or you want them busy scripting, pick one.

[Random_White_Guy]

Pretty sure removing it wouldn't be all that difficult.

The issue that arises though is the idea that not all PCs should be punished just because of a few people.

Everyone has a different philosophy on what constitutes PvP, worth of FD, and other things.

If I'm playing a person who is extremely vain, and a criminal, and CE, I'd likely murder someone in the face if all they did was insult me in front of my people.

Why?

Because sometimes you don't fuck with crazy people.

I agree that PvP would become a joke without FD in a time without DMs, because FD is a great equalizer that ends conflict one way or another. If you don't wanna get FD'd don't piss off the wrong people. Don't make yourself a target to muggers. Don't travel in groups less than three in PvP possible areas.

All of these things are easily ICly done as someone who is security minded or paranoid.

If you play EFU long enough you start to develop a sixth sense on the when to kill, when to fight, when to run, and when conflict will bubble up.

I'm a notoriously FD'd person on EFU haha, after a while you start feeling like an actor not a player. Your role got cut. You find a new one. You start over.