Remove Full Damage as a Subdual Option completely.

[Relinquish]

Do not listen to Semli.

stop trolling you big troll

[Semli]

Serious suggestion is serious.

I'd also like to point out I didn't tell everyone to ignore the OP and/or accuse him of trolling by making a horrible suggestion.

[lovethesuit]

The appeal of EfU:A is that it is constantly changing. And, to be fair, not every story deserves to be told to the conclusion that the player had in mind. Some players have no conclusion in mind.

It is hardly conducive to proper conflict if you require a DM for every FD action. Firstly, there's a shortage of DMs currently. Secondly, if you have to wait for a DM, there's a chance you'd get counter-ganked, whereas currently you can do your business and escape to kill another day. Thirdly, the more carebear-y this server gets, the less unique and interesting it will be.

Conflict and stories don't end at FD; people can get raised. Death is in every way a vital part of the setting, the server, the community, and the game in general. Don't restrict it more than it already has been.

[Cerberus]

Note that this is coming from a player that sux at PvP and loses more than wins, so you would think I'd be for this...
 
It's not all about the story or plot that could be ending. Why do we need to care about anothers plot? Seriously, why? If you don't want your plot to die, be more careful/cautious!!! I feel what we need to do is stop getting so attached to a PC that they become immortal and live forever. I'd agree with this idea if I didn't know that there are PC's around that have been fugued dozens and dozens and then a couple more times and yet are still around, (We playing EFU:A or Highlander? Die already!)/(FD PvP kills them, off with their heads!)
Not to mention the things that have already been stated by others about too many ways to beat this mechanically to make it logical in my opinion, (i.e., subdual under water = fugue).

[Craig210]

I have to say I disagree with the idea of this, due to the fact we do not have a DM team that is constantly online. This would increase the pressure on the DM team and by adding this to the workload, we simply shoot ourselves in the foot when we seek more events.
   
  Secondly, I could see this increasing the subdual/dry looting that already occurs.
   
  Thirdly, players already metagame the lack of DM presence on the server, when a DM is not online you will see players being a lot more bold in the NPC populated areas. Due to the simple fact, they know that they will not get ganked. As it stands right now when no DM is online for these occasions, players who know they are being hunted will travel between areas via NPC populated routes.
   
  [FONT="]Allthough it would be nice not to see people killing simple for the fact they like too, it’s a con that comes with the many pro’s of the current rulings. [/FONT]

[ScottyB]

It is important for players to be able to cultivate, manage, and ultimately resolve their conflicts on their own; I believe this regardless of the current DM coverage. We have rules for how to go about PvP/FD, and extensive resources for enforcing them should an issue need to be brought to our attention.

[Oskar Maxon]

Did Wern8 just post in this thread?

[The Boom King]

I think the problem with the FDing everyone in an instant can be solved by showing some self-restraint and maturity.
 
I know where most of you are coming from, as I've had SEVERAL characters cut short for being bold. (Something that I think is absolutely necessary for ambitious characters.) I've literally been FD'd twice 30 minutes after creation. Now, I've seen this kind of behavior recede a LOT lately. Which is why I play more often now! Most people are mature enough to know that it's less about winning and more about the story. It's D&D. You can't lose. It's your character's life. Not success. They FDs I do see are usually well earned. However, every now and then, there's a bit of unpleasantness where someone kill another prematurely. Now, this can be done under the guise of "ICness" but it's really nothing more than seeing a chance to get someone's gold and consumables, and taking it without any chance of reprucussions. I once had a cleric of mine kill an NPC commoner. This resulted in a very thrilling 30 second chase, followed by being knocked down and killed for "Being Evil." It was very apparent the fellow wanted my character's things. He could have just knocked him out and taken them, but there seems to be a deep-rooted feeling in this server of winning first, storytelling second. He saw that he had an IC reason to kill my character, get his things, and suffer no consequences, and he took it, as was his right, however, I still feel that if this kind of behavior was diminished, threads like this would not be considered as a good idea at all. (Also, if anyone was a part of that bit of nastiness I used as an example above, I really have no hard feelings at all, it's just an example I'm using!)
 
I see the merit in this, but I'm not for it. I'd rather see the discouragment of FDing, not it's removal.

[Yalta]

Its an interesting idea.
 
I do think that for the majority of the time we as players can be trusted to be mature though so I am not in favour.
 
Its a shame that there aren't more DM's to supervise all PVP, so that means we players need to maintain a cool and sensible approach to the game.

[The Old Hack]

As I am still a very new player here I am a bit hesitant about entering this discussion, but here goes...

I have not actually been playing NWN for quite some time and the first time I played I was almost exclusively active on a server that did not have permadeath. On the whole, it still had some quite good roleplay but suffered badly from the lack of threat against a character's life. The absence of permadeath did not eliminate griefing there; rather, it caused it to proliferate as griefers could always seek refuge in the excuse that it 'at most cost their victims an XP hit'. And we saw too many people who had no respect for death at all.

Conversely, in the time I have played here, death has held a far more meaningful role. RP-wise, I have several times felt a true gut punch when my character learned that someone she liked and respected had died. Properly RPed out, FD is a great boon to the mood on a server, I feel.

However, I do see where the OP is coming from. I have experienced at least a few examples of hearing of PCs dying in somewhat questionable ways and they have all irritated me badly. The thing is, even then their deaths did not become entirely meaningless; it affects my character ICly when she hears of either friends or enemies dying and roleplaying her reactions can be interesting in and of itself. One recent death hurt her particularly badly as it struck her (and me) as random and pointless, but random and pointless deaths are also a fact of real life. I am quite ICly angry at the characters responsible and as a player I mourn the storyline cut short; even so it has happened and so it goes. I am sure my own character will also die in the end if I do not retire her.

But instead of changing the mechanic of FDing itself, wouldn't it rather be better to monitor how people are using it? The server should be able to log such events, after all; a pattern of abuse ought to be quite noticeable over time. Also, other PCs might be witness to how killer characters behave and decide to police their own ranks.

That was a long ramble. :/ Let me condense it: I see the OP's concern but I am worried about the consequences of changing how things work. But it is worth discussing even so.

[Canzah]

I think I like this idea. Without reading any more than the OP I'd say that it would serve to prevent unnecessary or unjustified FD. If you cannot necessarily land a DM with time to oversee the whole act, you could just talk to one and explain your reasons for it. And if it's justified they press the FD button for you.

Perhaps a system similar to the ally system could be made? An enemy system where you talk to a DM and explain the reasons you want to FD someone (this could be handled through a forum board as well, I imagine) and if they are reasonable they toggle FD for you towards that specific PC. It might require an amount of scripting, but it's just a thought.

Edit: I might want to actually read the whole thread and think the matter through at a later time. So with the risk that this might intrude upon a player's "freedom" I will remain neutral.

[Egon the Monkey]

I think this could lead to either more early FDing, or odd resolution of conflicts. For example:

• You catch a PC spying on you/mugging people/attempting a gank. You have a DM right now. You know that PC will do the same thing again, and he doesn't need a DM for anything that's not FD. Do you let them go, knowing that a "do this shit again and we WILL kill you" warning is an empty threat unless you can find a DM the next time you catch him, or do you FD them because a second chance is going to lead to third, fourth chances until you can finally get someone?
• You know Bob is after your PC, but what you don't know is that he's had a mage sidekick buffing him. They both attack you this time, you have Bob approved for FD, but not his friend.
• Your PC has a bounty on his head, is desperate and is going to kill anyone who tries to claim it. However you've no idea who that would be.

This would work only if once you are approved to FD someone else, everyone else is able to FD you for reasons of retribution/preventing the attack. And then we're back to square one TBH.

As Boomking says, FD/drylooting is a good way for PCs to grab shedloads of consumables and gear to sell or use. There's more than one way to cut down on it though. DMs handing out XP in greater quantities for subduals and merely token amounts for FDs that aren't inevitable. Arbitrarily removing some of the more powerful items from a dead PC's pack, as they "broke in the fight". Bank services in places other than the dominion. Banks are great for preventing ganking a rich PC from being a "get minted quick" scheme, as the account's inaccessible to the attacker.That means you can't hit someone, then buy a load of consumables with his money in expectation of a revenge attack.

[Dr Dragon]

I cant believe this is being discussed on EFUA. Lets add more things to keep PCS tough and ready with no DMS online. Honestly do we need a DM to nanny everything we do or to wait for both a DM and our intended target to be on at the same time to do anything?


There is already rules and style in place for when PCS FD someone for little to no reason I think this suggestion is quite honestly a joke that implys that the players of EFUA are babies who FD for no reason.  I can say I know only a few instances where I was FD'd for utterly stupid reasons.  

This suggestion is simply a joke and ooc FD consent is stupid PCS on this server already are lasting way longer then I expected and the last thing we need is something like this.


If your afraid of being FD'D dont piss people off and dont make any enemies permadeath is always a risk on EFUA. Presthont how would you feel if you needed a DM at your side every time with ZAU or Squeagle that you decided to execute someone when no DM was around?    


This is a joke and will only place more drama and more for the DMS to handle as if they dont have more important things to do.

[putrid_plum]

i've been FD killed for utterly retarded reasons including taking a quest before another group, so i sort of agree on Mag's point

[Letsplayforfun]

Requiring DM presence would only make DM-lacking periods even worst for the players concerned. Players should not need DMs to act considerately, too. That includes both the winner of the pvp (make sure FD is justified), and the looser (don't be a sore looser, even if it's harsh).

I would rather see subdual being harsher on pcs (such as fuguing them but allowing respawn with the usual XP penalties), so that people started taking being subdued more seriously, but with a continuing story.

Then FD would be mostly for story-ending-drama only, not because of the fear-factor.

That being said, FD is used rather well by the playerbase, imo, and there'll always be borderline FDs that will spark endless yet sterile debates.

But that's just me.