Some thoughts on first sight

[superfly2000]

Just noticed that you seem to have a new module... This looks really interesting and I look forward to exploring this module *cough* and roleplaying a bit of course.
 
I played a couple of times at EfU and really liked it even though I never got stuck really. Some of what I liked about EfU seems to go with this one was well. Maybe it was the limited tilesets and lack of outside areas that effected me....
 
Examplary good homepage like this one is always a plus. Also the magic level seems to be on par with the EfU if I understood right. What I liked about EfU:s advancement/magic level was that it was slow/hard without overdoing it. It didn't seem impossible to advance and magical equipment, even if it was scarse, was attainable.
 
The death system seems a bit yanked up now though. Loosing all your stuff on death....yikes....let's hope you brought som good buddys with you. Also the aspect of a naked PC running like crazy just after the respawn to find his bag doesn't appeal to much me. Anyway....I'm kind of cautious so I hope it wont be to much of a problem hehe.
 
About the crafting. Even though I understand the balancing issues with a crafting system and also the time needed to implement it I really hope you change your mind on this one.
 
The interaction between players with a good crafting system in, together with an economic/sales one, is staggering. It is what can make a server really shine I think.
 
Ok..say we don't want to implement the ATS. First probably large parts of the module had to be rebuilt and secondly the whole ATS system couldn't be utilized because it can create up to +4 items.
 
Say we drop the ATS system. Then why not use the Bioware standard one at least? It is kind of crappy so it fits ok with a low magic world. Example: craft weapon and craft armor can only make non-magical stuff. This means that making all the ingredients avaliable in shops won't be a problem really.
 
The same goes with craft trap. I think this also could be used.
 
The whole of this system requires some implementation and a minimum of bug fixing.
 
Say we expand a little bit on it and add NPC crafted goods salesmen...voila....we have a living...breathing world....
 
Just my 5 cents.

[superfly2000]

Another thing that would be cool...that perhaps was lacking a bit on EfU (and similar servers) is the option to explore....and to get rewarded for it. I mean rewarded in the way of finding good stuff or monsters...without having to talk to a questgiver before.
 
Even though I agree that scripted quests are uber cool and should be what most players spend most their time with I still think some part of an adventure is to explore a world, not knowing what you will find.
 
Ok I will try to stop writing suggestions for a while now until at least I actually tried the server...hehe. See ya' there!

[sylvyrdragon]

Random spawns are a plenty here....Cats, snakes, Gobo Assasins, Trolls, and those are just a few of  the ones in the day time.

At night... Greater Werewolves, Bats...the list goes on and on.  
Trust me wandering the world a lone is not advised.  But, any way, have fun and try not to die. (to often.)

[Joe Desu]

Both EFU and EFUA provide experience for exploring.  You will get XP just for walking about more.  Of course this is easier said than done at times.
 
You will find interesting places along with monsters.
 
Please consider /c collect_pack to help pick up all of your dropped things upon spawning after an untimely death to speed up retreival.  And yes, it is good to travel with buddies.
 
While crafting would add a bit of a PC market for standard items, we already have plenty of standard item NPC merchants.  There are usually IG PC merchants showing up who will buy and sell anything.  Well at least at times when they aren't dispatched in a dark alley.  
 
Best to get IG and discover what is there and stick with it.

[Badandexiled]

The matter of dying is a bit tricky.

In the end, everyone tries to make it easier for new people to get started, but the death system and setting is nonetheless, for roleplayers that have some experience on similar kind of playing. We don't expect death to be light, you may die, and it often means you will not continue.

Roleplaying characters means also that you submit to mortality, although with few differences.

[Letsplayforfun]

The exploring part was answered already. You already get lots of exploring xps in small amounts. And that's only for the island. Imagine what it will amount to when other isles open up for exploring, or if Underdark is ever made more available. That being said, exploring is tough. I've been running around with invisible mages for more than a year now, and still get caught with my pants down sometimes.

The crafting part i'd certainly enjoy as a player, but bottom line is it's not really needed as many PC merchants take up some trade, and making a standard system would certainly be cool but a lot of work for not so much gain. To make it really cool, one would need to be able to customize his crated items, and i guess that must be pretty tricky to scribe.

The dying part is the tricky part. It probably just takes time getting used to. You WILL die, no matter how cautious you try to be. That's no consolation, but the heavy death toll is really what makes you care about your PCs and thus breath life into them.

[Cruzel]

The death system seems a bit yanked up now though. Loosing all your stuff on death....yikes....let's hope you brought som good buddys with you. Also the aspect of a naked PC running like crazy just after the respawn to find his bag doesn't appeal to much me. Anyway....I'm kind of cautious so I hope it wont be to much of a problem hehe.

The system like this has been here for more than the year I have been here, you must be pretty oldschool :P.  Well, you don't really lose all your stuff when you die. If you die you can respawn right at your body, and play it as an IC blackout, near death experience, etc. (not actually coming back to life) If you die alone, you can usually find a DM IG or on IRC to clear your body to allow you to respawn safely, if not you can respawn in town and RP it as you nearly escaping death, and get some help, or whatever.

 

About the crafting. Even though I understand the balancing issues with a crafting system and also the time needed to implement it I really hope you change your mind on this one.The interaction between players with a good crafting system in, together with an economic/sales one, is staggering. It is what can make a server really shine I think.

I agree. The economy on EFU:A has been carefully balanced to make people prefer to go to PC merchants, and encourage player to player interactions rather than just dumping all your loot on an NPC. Where there is not a crafting system, they have still created an economy that is based more on player to player than player to NPC.
 

Ok..say we don't want to implement the ATS. First probably large parts of the module had to be rebuilt and secondly the whole ATS system couldn't be utilized because it can create up to +4 items. Say we drop the ATS system. Then why not use the Bioware standard one at least? It is kind of crappy so it fits ok with a low magic world. Example: craft weapon and craft armor can only make non-magical stuff. This means that making all the ingredients avaliable in shops won't be a problem really.
 The same goes with craft trap. I think this also could be used.
 

At the moment from an IC perspective, this is still a fledgling society, to gather all the materials to make your own armor, would be pretty hard in my opinion. Everyone is basically scavenging. Anything above banded mail is somewhat rare. If everyone could make their own (even nonmagic) fullplate, it would ruin the survivalist and scavenging feel we have now, which is pretty awesome. However, that said there are systems like cooking, alchemy, and herbalism which are player crafting and stuff. Once a player figures these out, the things they make are really damn handy, and can be sold.

[superfly2000]

I read the rules on PvP now. I must say I think they are way to complicated.
 
I think in general when writing rules it should be under the assumption there is no DM present. We are playing on a PW and most of the time a DM will not be avaliable.
 
Also if I understand the corpse rules right ain't that a bit to harsh? Reading it seems almost like the killing player can more or less remove the other player from the server...by burning his corpse for example.
 
Most servers I played on usually had something called "purgatory". As opposed to fugue, the purgatory, is the place you end up after being killed in PvP. The only punishment here really is a 5 minute (realtime) wait. After that you are respawned without XP loss.
 
After all....PvP death, normally, shouldn't be as costly as PvE death.
 
On the other hand there are a lot more advanced types of PvP deaths where a lot more roleplaying is present. An example is public execution. Theese are special cases and are usually supervised by DM's. In that case they can also, hopefully with the good will of the player, decide that a certain character is gone. But again, theese are special cases and should be dealt with as such.
 
Summarizing
 
PvP rules could be shortened a lot and also made clearer. Say something like this:
 
Concent has to be given for PvP. The player who wants to engage in PvP must first set dislike and then send a tell to the other player, requesting PvP. Positive answer must be given before engaging.
 
A message must be sent to the DM channel as information of possible PvP starting but clearence from DM is not necessary.
 
A player who has not given concent for PvP must remove himself ("escape") to another, friendly area, and may not "run past" the attacker in the original area. This of course is only valid for the first time PvP is requested.
 
Don't start PvP in the vicinity of NPC's to avoid theese getting hurt.
 
As always, if a DM is present, his decision can override any of the above rules.

[Lupine Grace]

I read the rules on PvP now. I must say I think they are way to complicated.
 
I think in general when writing rules it should be under the assumption there is no DM present. We are playing on a PW and most of the time a DM will not be avaliable.
 
Also if I understand the corpse rules right ain't that a bit to harsh? Reading it seems almost like the killing player can more or less remove the other player from the server...by burning his corpse for example.
 
Most servers I played on usually had something called "purgatory". As opposed to fugue, the purgatory, is the place you end up after being killed in PvP. The only punishment here really is a 5 minute (realtime) wait. After that you are respawned without XP loss.
 
After all....PvP death, normally, shouldn't be as costly as PvE death.
 
On the other hand there are a lot more advanced types of PvP deaths where a lot more roleplaying is present. An example is public execution. Theese are special cases and are usually supervised by DM's. In that case they can also, hopefully with the good will of the player, decide that a certain character is gone. But again, theese are special cases and should be dealt with as such.
 
Summarizing
 
PvP rules could be shortened a lot and also made clearer. Say something like this:
 
Concent has to be given for PvP. The player who wants to engage in PvP must first set dislike and then send a tell to the other player, requesting PvP. Positive answer must be given before engaging.
 
A message must be sent to the DM channel as information of possible PvP starting but clearence from DM is not necessary.
 
A player who has not given concent for PvP must remove himself ("escape") to another, friendly area, and may not "run past" the attacker in the original area. This of course is only valid for the first time PvP is requested.
 
Don't start PvP in the vicinity of NPC's to avoid theese getting hurt.
 
As always, if a DM is present, his decision can override any of the above rules.

I believe DM's are available quite often here to watch over pvp! As for consent for pvp thats a very silly notion. Excuse me sir, can I mug you? Most certainly the answer will be no, as players at times, given the option will be ooc'ly selfish using their pvp shield to evade it at all times. Which is incredibly detrimental to a roleplay environment.

The chance that the person you insult and ridicule may come back to hunt you is all part of roleplay. If you remove these factors, you create an incredibly large ooc rift that sucks to fun out of all roleplay, making player interaction, particularly player conflict meaningless and without any merit or consequence!

I'm confident that a system such as you suggested will most definately never be implemented into EFU. I'm sorry to be so negative about it but its a subject I have very strong feelings about. At present I happen to be playing a Mountain Orc, meaning for whatever reason, anyone could kill me, though I may be upset if the death isn't great one, I expect it, a system like your suggesting would remove all challenge from playing such races, not to abolish epic tails of heroes slaying villians and vice versa, as you can simply with no loss pop back constantly, it cheapens the whole ordeal!

When you die to an NPC here its supposed to be exactly the same as dying to a PC though there is allowance for respawning when it is an npc(unless a dm says otherwise!)

[Letsplayforfun]

No.

You need a DM when you engage near NPCs, because like any normal person, they may want to react to what they see. (call the guards, run away, join the fight, etc.) More, a PC might lure NPCs into helping them ("1000 coins if you help me!")

PvP death is very unlike other deaths, because it gets odd when you killed someone and meet him 5mn later in town like nothing happened. Not even counting the times when the supposedly dead guy will try to get revenge. Killing people on FD mode is just that: making sure they don't come back.

Dying to quests is something DMs allow us to respawn from - only if we want to- because they don't feel like enforcing perma death all the time. The turnover in PCs would be way too high, with little chance for anyone to "storytell" anything. Actually  we don't "die" in quests: we are just knocked unconscious. It does sound silly when someone gets up and says "damn, i was killed!". It has no impact on role play, because each quest experience is supposed to be a new one, and the goblin that killed you doesn't give a crap if you come back on next reset.

More, the death system may seem harsh, but it makes death actually mean something. On computer games, since players don't feel pain, they tend no to play the "fear" factor. Being harsh on the death system brings that feeling back.

[superfly2000]

As for consent for pvp thats a very silly notion. Excuse me sir, can I mug you? Most certainly the answer will be no, as players at times, given the option will be ooc'ly selfish using their pvp shield to evade it at all times. Which is incredibly detrimental to a roleplay environment.

Did it ever strike you that the attacker might have OOC reasons as well? Maybe he just dont like that player so he makes up some bogus history and then kills that character....
 
I think you should not be forced to PvP. Especially if the death rules for PvP are as they are.

[Lupine Grace]

Did it ever strike you that the attacker might have OOC reasons as well? Maybe he just dont like that player so he makes up some bogus history and then kills that character....
 
I think you should not be forced to PvP. Especially if the death rules for PvP are as they are.

Our player base at large are above such. Only monsters are allowed to be engaged in pvp based on race alone. You can report someone for such actions to the DM's and I assure you action will be taken if it comes to light that said person was indeed crafting "bogus" backgrounds in order to FD individual characters. ~Particularly~ if its based on the player! That sort of thing is considered griefing and outright banworthy I believe!

Pvp is a part of roleplay my friend, it is a very important aspect of it. Roleplay without an element of conflict is not roleplay at all. It is possible to avoid pvp entirely by playing a passive, non intrusive, friendly, door matish character mind you! For the most part at least. In any case you can be garantueed all pvp is instigated with good reason, this is part of why DM's like to supervise such, so that they can ask questions about it if they aren't so certain!

[superfly2000]

No.
 
You need a DM when you engage near NPCs, because like any normal person, they may want to react to what they see. (call the guards, run away, join the fight, etc.) More, a PC might lure NPCs into helping them ("1000 coins if you help me!")

I am not sure this is an answer to my post. If it is i'd just like to say that I pretty much covered that by saying that if a DM was present he is of course in charge and can pretty much allow the players to PvP in front an NPC and perhaps even take part by taking over that NPC.

[dragonfire9000]

I'm afraid there's no way the DMs are going to change the PvP rules. It used to be that there was unsupervised PvP in Lower Sanctuary, but that failed fast. As for needing permission, it already gets lame fast when you have to wait ten minutes after screaming "I'll gut you and send your spleen in pieces to your girlfriend and her step-mom!" for a DM to arrive. Storytime!

I was playing on Arabel Sunday afternoon, and was about to go out and do a pretty darn difficult quest. We had a good group, hadn't hit any spawns on the way out, and were having a little fun with each others' characters. It was a stormy night out in the woods of Cormyr, and just before we entered the QA... he showed up! A man in dark blue armor, a helm obscuring his face. He told us we should pray to Talos, the storm lord, for protection on this night. Well, one of our guys was a paladin of Tyr, I was a dwarf... nuff said, one other had more backbone even than I, and one was an elf of somebody-or-other. So basically, we wouldn't bow down. Stormy had a DM around, and we got Call Lightning'd. One shot, whole party. Teach me to forget my flanking maneuvers... anyways, the point is that we all now have an enemy. We now he's BAMF enough to take out a whole party consisting of some pretty mean characters, so we're going to have to get some pretty strong allies, not to mention do a little research to find out just who this guy was. All of this is major-league RP, and all of it will advance my character.

Oh, just a note to that player, just in case he runs over to EfU ever:

Mantin Ders, fear the dorf powah. FEAR IT!

[Cruzel]

EFU is a story. A harsh one. Sometimes people need to die forever to make that story more interesting.

EFU is not a happily ever after story. Not everybody gets a good ending, and it seems to me that is what you are asking for!  PVP Death makes perfect sense they will not get up. PVE death is basically you getting knocked out.  But if you PVP someone and talk about it ICly, "Oh yeah, I killed that guy last night, but then I had to do it again this morning." Very immersion breaking. If people did not stay dead when you kill them, you just get an endless cycle of PVP of factions/gangs/people ganking each other inturn.


FD is here for a very good reason, imo.