Require spellcraft points from characters with mastery of potions

[PlayaCharacter]

A simple question:

Why is it that a character with low lore, low spellcraft, and usually low intelligence is assumed to know all the nuances of all potion effects?

I ask because it occurs to me that not every club-wielding knucklehead who comes through the portal ought to be able to pass one of Professor Snape's potions examinations. In fact, a not insignificant number of them would likely have trouble even reading the label on the bottle. Remind me again how an illiterate character can amass such carefully organized potion inventories?

When I see people talking about the gulf between players with near-perfect mastery of the NWN engine and those who are still figuring it out, I can't help but wonder if it's not a form of metagaming to carry such knowledge from one character to the next, over and over again. We require all players to accurately represent their character's stats in their role-play. So where are the in-character actions that account for and justify each and every barbarian (most of whom are illiterate, mind you) knowing exactly what a bottle of blur does and exactly when to use it?

It seems to me that if the player of a low-intelligence thug was accurately portraying the weaknesses and limitations described on their character sheet, they would need to be told what a particular potion does, and not all of them would be so quick to drink a strange liquid purported to have magical effects solely on the word of a stranger.

As it is, 100% of all low-intelligence thugs on the server have an encyclopedic knowledge of all potions and all spell effects, including drinks that are unique to this setting.

I don't want to harsh anybody's buzz, but after all the times I've heard the DMs express a desire to see PCs play their weaknesses, and after all the times I've been told to invest points in a particular skill if I want to portray a character as having acquaintance with that skill, this seems like a gross oversight.

It doesn't seem unreasonable to expect PCs who want to play characters with that kind of knowledge to invest five points in spellcraft, lore, alchemy, or some other relevant skill.

[BrittanyPanthas]

It would be assumed to me that most potion merchants would spend the time advertising exactly what a potion does, or explaining it to the novice adventuring populace.

This would lead to a lot of boring roleplay and long-winded advertisements though.

[Relinquish]

From their past thuggings and their life before the ziggurat anyone who uses potions or supplies would just know from experience. Like hey this guy sells them lower then you, you are ripping me off. I don't see why that should be discouraged because it creates the PC potion market and conflicting merchants.

[PlayaCharacter]

This would lead to a lot of boring roleplay and long-winded advertisements though.

If the role-play in such an interaction is boring, I would think the fault lies with the players.

[Capricious]

Well, the problem I see is this just looks impossible to enforce.

Also, I like to think of this more in terms of athletes. For instance, your typical athlete may not be the smartest guy, and he's certainly not an expert on anatomy and the like. However they do know how to train, and about nutrition and the like. They learn these things to aid them in their chosen profession, and it's independent of their intelligence.

I look at potions and the like in this setting as tools of the trade. Therefore a competent warrior would see them as just as valuable as their weapon and their armor. Hence someone who's good at what they do would certainly know how to use these things, and what good it would do them.

They may not know the why of things, or even care. But they do know that if they drink that potion of speed they move much faster, attack more, and are more slippery for their foe to touch. They don't need ranks in Spellcraft to figure that out.

[PlayaCharacter]

From their past thuggings and their life before the ziggurat anyone who uses potions or supplies would just know from experience. Like hey this guy sells them lower then you, you are ripping me off. I don't see why that should be discouraged because it creates the PC potion market and conflicting merchants.

That makes perfect sense when you're talking about the basics like strength. "This will make you stronger." It requires almost no explanation.

What I'm really aiming at here are characters who know that Bull's + Aid + Bless + whatever = a high enough AB to beat so-and-so's DR. To me, that kind of expert knowledge of potions and their combinations ought to be somewhat specialized, and there is no harm in expecting a player to reflect that knowledge with an investment in skill points.

EDIT:

Well, the problem I see is this just looks impossible to enforce.

It's simple. If a question arises, ask the player how their character knows how to do what they did. If they have a satisfactory answer, wonderful. It is no different than enforcing any other form of IC behavior.

[Dr Dragon]

I say people should have points in lore to do know how to properly wield weapons and put on armor. Also rogues should need Lore to know what traps do....I can go on and on  about how every class needs lore.  

Also the commoner needs points in lore to tie his shoes in my OP.

[Relinquish]

I think it's perfectly reasonable that a person who has adventured his entire life knows what most potions do. It's not like we're talking about omg random rare potions of polymorph or tensers transformation. I don't think there is any way to enforce what is suggested anyway.

[core]

I have no idea how this would be desirable or even enforceable. Knowledge of mechanics is completely OOC.

[PlayaCharacter]

I have no idea how this would be desirable or even enforceable. Knowledge of mechanics is completely OOC.

Then why is OOC knowledge forbidden for everything but potions?

[Groucho the Marxist]

How did that low wisdom character make all the right life choices in training (feats) to be a super-star combatant?

How did it happen that randomly this person was born with the most optimal arrangement of physical and mental statistics possible with a point buy system!?

Or a better question...Why not just learn the system instead of trying to force people who have down to your level of play?

Trying to enforce/implement this would just be a headache, and unecessary at that. Any excuse could be made for the gulping of particular potions, largely due to excess. Who -wouldn't- throw back everything that they knew to help them "strike truer" against a tough opponent? Why would they forget all the times before that they drank that potion and it made certain things easier (accuracy, damage, ect, ect). It's something that comes with being an adventurer, which is why you don't see anything like this in core D&D either.

[PlayaCharacter]

Who -wouldn't- throw back everything that they knew to help them "strike truer" against a tough opponent? Why would they forget all the times before that they drank that potion and it made certain things easier (accuracy, damage, ect, ect).

What is so difficult about taking 5 points of spellcraft?

[Luke Danger]

I see what you're going for Playa, but first, it's unenforcable, second, as Capricious said, it would be expected them to of picked a few things up. So common things like blur, PfE, Cures, I think everyone would know. That's part, I think, of why pots should need to be ID'd when located in say, a Goblin larder. But otherwise, it's too much trouble for it's worth.

But frankly, there's some things that, saddly, are entirely based on player, not character, skill. Builds is one example (though admitidly, I tend to play characters with intellegence, so I can't say much).

[Drakill Tannan]

I think it's perfectly reasonable that a person who has adventured his entire life knows what most potions do. It's not like we're talking about omg random rare potions of polymorph or tensers transformation.

Yep. Although i'd say when the barbarian says "sell me 3 potions of displacement" it seems rather odd.

[Relinquish]

I think my 10 intel fighter is going to take conc and discipline before spellcraft seeing how he's a fighter and not some mage. You can't dictate what skills people have to take. Now I insist you take listen so you can emote hearing around corners and being able to hear other people talk to you and spot to see them.