Darkness / Web / Entangle / X

[Egon the Monkey]

Why do casters need to be invisible all the time?

They don't. I generally tend to prefer blur to invis on a lot of quests anyway as it doesn't break. However, if you've done a persistent area spell THEN invis you're probably trying to pull someone's ass out the fire then get safe yourself, or cover a retreat, hence invis.

All deliberate offensive actions should break invis, as you're making a decision to put yourself at risk in order to harm something. So these should break invis to cast, like a fireball will regardless of if it hits anything. Once something's laid down though, you aren't in control of it any more, so any actions shouldn't incure a cost to you. I like Drakill's idea if there's no way to have cast cloudspells belong to "someone" rather than a PC. You could cover an escape with a Web, say, then end it, leaving the victims stuck but without it being able to trap new targets or break your invis.

[LoaLimbo]

Additionally casting these spells DOES not break invisibility. They can be layered quite thickly before anyone can spot you -- and then invisibility will only be broken when they enter it, and are screwed.

We are allowed to layer cloud spells? That's real good to know.

[ScottyB]

It might actually be better for the server, lag-wise, to make spells like Web, Entangle, and Grease a one-shot that just affects the initial targets but doesn't create a persisting "zone." (The web clings to the creatures in the area when it goes off, but is easy enough to walk over by other creatures; entangle vines come up to grab the targeted creatures rather than writhing all over the place; magical grease lubes up the targets and quickly dissipates.) This also has the added benefit of not even accidentally being stacked.

Darkness can't be altered this way since it's a curtain of darkness. It might be possible to have the darkness AOE object destroyed via a "/c dispel cloud" issued by the caster, at least, so that if the caster decides that darkness (or other AOEs that can't be turned into one-shot spells) is less useful than invising and bolting, then jerks (or AI) can't keep hopping over the AOE line.

[Relinquish]

lingering AoE spells don't have their heartbeat trigger on EFU, they do their effect upon casting and fading, and only if you re enter it.

[Lulzebub]

I really like Scotty's idea.

[FishyBusiness]

I like Scotty's idea too. And Drakils.

However, there's a thing about Web/Grease, which would not correspond with Scotty's idea, I think.

Both spells give a movement speed penalty, which the suggested idea would probably null.

And there's still the matter of Darkness/Gas Clouds.

I would incline myself mostly towards Gippy's first suggestion, about adding/fixing the OnHeartbeat thingummy, if it is even possible. Would make those spells work as it should!

In addition, if a "/c dispel cloud" would be added, it would make it perfectly usable!

[scrappayeti]

I had always assumed fixing the heartbeat issue was impossible, the game was so obviously designed with that continuing effect in  mind. Consider Acid Fog, 6th circle spell, supposed to do 4d6 a round. Now just does 4d6 once. That is, well, terrible.

If the heartbeat can be fixed, then that is obviously a huge boon. If it cannot, well, fixing the passive effects of persistent spells would be nice.

[Garem]

It might actually be better for the server, lag-wise, to make spells like Web, Entangle, and Grease a one-shot that just affects the initial targets but doesn't create a persisting "zone." (The web clings to the creatures in the area when it goes off, but is easy enough to walk over by other creatures; entangle vines come up to grab the targeted creatures rather than writhing all over the place; magical grease lubes up the targets and quickly dissipates.) This also has the added benefit of not even accidentally being stacked.

Darkness can't be altered this way since it's a curtain of darkness. It might be possible to have the darkness AOE object destroyed via a "/c dispel cloud" issued by the caster, at least, so that if the caster decides that darkness (or other AOEs that can't be turned into one-shot spells) is less useful than invising and bolting, then jerks (or AI) can't keep hopping over the AOE line.

If this were to be implemented, how would this negatively or positively effect the power of the spell? Can you give a more precise description of what happens to victims inside the webbing?

As I read it, the spell would either be a heartbeat-style spell ONLY for those caught in the first Web or Grease spell, or it would act precisely as it does now only without the misleading graphic effect?

[reverendburn]

No other server I play on has that heartbeat problem.

[Drakill Tannan]

Both spells give a movement speed penalty, which the suggested idea would probably null.

People should note too, that that is the only thing greese does.

[FishyBusiness]

Not sure if Grease breaks invis. I'm willing to do some testing of all the AoE spells and put a list of what works and what does nothere.

[TheImpossibleDream]

Grease has a reflex save versus knockdown Drakil, even with freedom of movement you're supposed to save vs knockdown, you just rarely see it due to the heartbeat bug.

In the stealth vs invisibility underpowered overpowered argument  obviously stealth requires some investment whilst invisibility requires  one spell or potion so one should have vastly more utility than the  other.

I'd like to see the spells fixed so their heartbeat works. As for invisibility breaking. Thats working as intended, each save made against a grease, web, cloud of bewilderment counts as a hostile action.

If the heartbeat worked as it should then these spells would be perfectly fine and not require any modification to make "better" having their effects be instant one shot would make them near worthless.

On a side note the aoe spell gust of wind can be cast from invisibility  without breaking it and it's pretty crazy if used right.

[Staring Death]

If persistent AoE should continually break invisibility because it's considered a hostile action (I'm sorry, I don't see how it's an action once it's cast though), then so should summons attacking.

[Drakill Tannan]

What does EFU do that causes this heartbeat problem? I've never seen it in any other server, and it explains why chocking powder, gresse and pretty much all the could spells i love to use, such so much.

[ExileStrife]

All persistent cloud spells are wacky on every nwn multiplayer server.  You have to go out of your way and script changes in order to make them behave in the "expected" or custom ways.