Druids and Skills

[putrid_plum]

I read on the old forums rangers get a +4 spot/listen/search bonus if they have 5 ranger levels and are in a wilderness area.   The new forums do not list this but if it is still true then why shouldn't druids get this as well?  I mean, you all gave them tracking so oviously they would be able to spot/listen/search for things better in wild places too.

Rangers still would have their favored enemy bonus above druids.

Just an idea, anyone?

[I can has fun?]

Doesn't this refer to the Trackless Step feat, which druids get at level 3?

EDIT: That's the last time I quick scan the forums!

[Jayde Moon]

Trackless Step is +4 Hide and Move Silent in Wilderness areas.  Nothing to do with Spot/Listen/Search.

Rangers get Trackless Step at lvl 1, Druids at 3.

[MisterPAIN]

http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Trackless_step
Trackless Step is MS/Hide bonus that rangers get a level 1 >.>

This is what plum is talking about:

http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/index.php?pageid=mechanics
"Druid/Ranger.....blah blah text....
    * Rangers receive a +4 Spot/Listen/Search bonus if they have 5 ranger levels and are in a wilderness area."

[RIPnogarD]

I think with tracking, not needing bedrolls and fire to sleep and custom animal companions and wild shapes druids have enough perks and giving them yet another would actually put them over the breaking point.

[JackOfSwords]

I wouldn't be for such a change.  I think the focus of rangers as scouts justifies the bonus, and that focus is what seperates rangers from druids.  Note that Search, Spot and Listen are Class Skills for Rangers, but Cross-Class Skills for Druids.

[Garem]

I believe that bonus was granted because rangers were weaker than other classes. It was a balance concern. Druids don't have this problem, as they are already quite powerful.

I agree with the logic behind this idea, but the argument of reason ("It only makes sense that ___" rarely has standing when discussing NWN and DnD mechanics. >.>

[ShiftingAllegiances]

I'm for it.

Druids are good but not all ending, nor would this put them over the edge. Noting that a skill is class or not doesn't really work since druids also don't get hide or move silently but I doubt you will find many druids that haven't invested in it some what with feats, cross classing, gear, spells (that rangers get but later due to having class skill most likely). I think it makes sense that a druid is keen on spotting things in the wilds. For example, why wouldn't they become more adept at noticing that lurking feline that is getting ready to pounce? In addition, with tracking nerfed due to abuse, I think it would make sense.

For your thoughts RIP, I think you should realize that animal companions are not the greatest, they are good when you hit lvl 7 or above truth be told (though some people are obviously able to use them effectively at other times depending on situations). Wildshapes are there because that is the normal, yet they are nerfed to give uniqueness but yet are still weaker. Basically they are a situational thing, as you will see rat being used most = horrid at anything but stealth or one of the things that has a limited use and then turn right back. Rangers only need a bedroll which puts them on par with druids because it is only 15 lbs extra at most.

Yeah, so, I would like to see this. Even if not search, at least spot/listen bonuses would be nice.

[Mort]

I'm not really convinced.

[Oroborous]

Druids get wildshapes at level 5 that give them fairly good hide and move silent, and coupled with their spells put them well past rangers already.

What druids lack, and should be fixed is that these forms have strength that is so low that it becomes incredible difficult to actually use these forms in stealthy ways.

[Vlaid]

Druids don't really need any help in getting a better stealth modifier. They already have the capability to get a stealth FAR above anything rangers can get.

Rangers get one little perk.

Other than maybe some wildshape issues Oro mentioned, I can't imagine druids needing help in being stealthy(I'm not familair with wild shapes in EFU:A other than the stealth modifiers).

[Snoteye]

Druids are not rangers are not barbarians. They already share more than enough traits, if you ask me. >.>

[Sandstorm]

Druids get wildshapes at level 5 that give them fairly good hide and move silent, and coupled with their spells put them well past rangers already.
 
What druids lack, and should be fixed is that these forms have strength that is so low that it becomes incredible difficult to actually use these forms in stealthy ways.

I have used these forms successfully my entire character. I have given up carrying more than 20 pounds in order to have over 50 stealth. I think that is a fair trade! As for the original topic, I agree that this small bonus should be given to druids. This is not a major mechanical change. It will help find some of the secret doors and vines and stuff that we've already found, but need to walk around for minutes before we roll high enough because there is no auto-20 for finding them, and search, like hide/ms, is not a druid skill for some reason. It is a 20% increase in finding someone stealthed, and a 20% increase in finding a trap door, per round. This will not help on quests. This will not help in PvP. This will not help in most roleplaying. Ultimately, it helps druids see some stealthed animals (usually leopards), and helps druids find the secret places they already know about.

[Conan The Conqueror]

I believe druids are fine as they are. There are one or two wildshape forms that give a significant boost to both spot and listen skills. There are feats that can help with this as well as cross classing skills if you feel the need.

On top of druids having wildshape, EFU has provided us with an expanded selection to choose from. That is huge. As for weight restrictions, you really have to balance out what you want to accomplish and lighten your load if you feel that you will be shifting that much.

Definitely early on I tried not to carry more than 50 lbs so that I could always have free movement using the smaller forms, but I understand that as you progress you obtain more stuff..which sometimes means your priorities change.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

Be glad that chicken form has 2d6 dmg.