Additional Safe Rest Areas in QAs

[Lulzebub]

If this ultimately means more:
 
Balanced, challenging, risky, difficult surprise attack PVP
 
and less:
 
Invis ganking/mugging outside of QA'a when you OOC know they will be low on spells, that mean PVP is over fast and is barely a fight
 
Then I am all for it.

This is all I'm sayin'.

P.S. TheImpossibleDream, I wasn't trying to get into it with you, and I can see how my responses came off dickheaded. Let me just apologize right now and I'll shut the hell up in this thread.

[derfo]

Who actually gets ambushed outside of QAs? Should people who are returning from a big conflict really be at their prime?

Sounds really dumb, glad I don't have a char to endure this stupidity right now.

[Equinox]

Wrong derf. People who just finished a battle. Casters especially are not expecting to be attacked immediately after.

Sure they've got some buffs on. But anything powerful? Anything that can potentially stop an ambush in its tracks like impinvis/stoneskin/bigbys interposing hand? Any high levle caster who is hoarding their spells on the off chance they get hit outside the QA either has incredible forsight, or is paranoid and makes the quest way harder by only being 50% as effective.

[Egon the Monkey]

I'd like to add that pretty much every "save your ass reserve spell" suggested so far won't do jack to prevent a couple of inconveniently placed Mist Ogre Elder Icecube Merchants   or an ambushing PC caster using offensive spells. Trying to cover for merely the most likely situations would blow huge holes in your spell list or supplies. it's only a rare few quests that are short enough you could hoard spells after and be a worthwhile team member on.

Who actually gets ambushed outside of QAs?

To my knowledge alone, 5 people this week, but I'm not going to reveal spoilers. Stuff like this doesn't need to occur  a lot to be annoying enough to be worth an easy fix.

Can you also just bring oil to nearly 99% of quests and rest right outside having your warriors defend you?  

Nope. because they don't just have to defend you, they have to go off and squash every nasty in a hundred meter radius so you can rest. In addition, plenty of areas have campfire restriction. I'd say, maybe 25% of  quests  are non-problematic to rest at, at a rough count of the ones I remember.
That's not always a great problem,but when it is, it really is. Best example's probably the Wooded Ruin which has a 4-7 quest and mobs you don't want to face unbuffed at that level range. The mystery aspect is good Plum, and I applaud that RP, but nobody is going to be intimidated by a caster they have IC and OOC reason to know will be under capacity.

What this boils down to is whether or not players sitting outside a QA with a TN Illusionist and a gleeful expression, or Assassin  Vines creeping up on an unbuffed, unprepared party before they can secure a rest area (to name a couple of extreme examples) are a benefit or a detriment to the server. I'm going with "detriment". We are not all Naga. We do not all have the Alertness Twitch Dial turned up to 11 and an an encyclopaedic knowledge of every potion gulping sound. Some of us enjoy a soundtrack to our games. Even so, that response means your PC might get away, but the others are still in trouble. It's another gap between the hardcore and everyone else.

[derfo]

Who actually gets ambushed outside of QAs? Should people who are returning from a big conflict really be at their prime?

Sounds really dumb, glad I don't have a char to endure this stupidity right now.

Wrong derf. People who just finished a battle. Casters especially are not expecting to be attacked immediately after.

Nice, I sure enjoy a question and an opinion being called 'wrong' so bluntly. I guess I am really dumbfounded as to how things work.

Egon, I understand what you mean and I guess it does suck to get caught with your pants down. I apologize if I sounded too much of a dick, but I was pretty sure most people took a lot of pvp fair play precaution.

[Staring Death]

While I'll not comment on the suggestion itself, the way I see ambushes at the transition is people who couldn't be bothered to get a DM to get inside the QA, and somewhat metagame that the group WILL have to come out that way (Because obviously, every character has perfect knowledge of the QA). As far as I know, there's only one quest with an alternative exit, and you'd still have to go back at the original entrance to close the quest.

[GoblinSapper]

Ambushing people right after a quest is bullshit and you go to hell for it. Story, End of. Your trans-popping and griefing, hitting them right then they're garuntee'd to have no more spells/potions and the most loot. Grow some testicals and perform banditry in the wilds or the ruins.
 
PS: A true neutral mage going around performing banditry shouldn't be true neutral anymore.
 
PPS: A true neutral ANYTHING shouldn't be true neutral anymore after banditry, stop mechanics exploiting.

[Drakill Tannan]

Meh, regarding true neutrality..

Alignment can't really be decided by a single act. Say, a single act of baditry, but the character also helped the stygians capture this X criminal in the past, and sounds pretty neutral to me.

[Letsplayforfun]

Strongly against this.

Nine Brings up a valid point, and besides, Wizards should never use all their spells unless in a life and death situation imo. Bring oil and a resting roll or just keep that invisibility for the trip back home and you're fine.

[Drakill Tannan]

Strongly against this.

Nine Brings up a valid point, and besides, Wizards should never use all their spells unless in a life and death situation imo. Bring oil and a resting roll or just keep that invisibility for the trip back home and you're fine.

Not possible if you get out of orcs 2, and it happens that there is a mist ogre nerby. Then you have to kill it, then rest.

And if a Party is waiting to ambush you outside the SQA, not possible either.

[lolmagics]

You act like a group that just did Orcs 2 would have any sort of issue with a spawn of Mist Ogres when people run around and farm these things alone. Your argument for having a rest area inside of a quest is to prevent yourself from being ambushed or to make your walk home risk-free, neither of which really make any sense. You can't just remove all risks for no reason and PREVENT (read: a safe resting place that the ambushing group has no access to) other people from taking the IC advantage over you being weakened from battle.

Use your consumables, scrolls, and trinkets to survive an assault and rely on the benefits that certain classes can offer to longevity. A Wizard's strength is not their ability to fight for a great length of time, but a fighter happens to have that ability and can use consumables to even the odds. If you're so worried about these things then bring more people with spells for your fighters so that your spell book isn't exhausted 30 seconds into the quest after you buffed people.

[Thomas_Not_very_wise]

If a party is waiting at a quest transition to gank you, report them to a DM.

Camping transitions is a BIG no no.

[Drakill Tannan]

You act like a group that just did Orcs 2 would have any sort of issue with a spawn of Mist Ogres when people run around and farm these things alone.

When fully buffed. I'd like to see an unbuffed party with no spellslots, or use/day abilities and that just spent a lot of potions farm these.

Your argument for having a rest area inside of a quest is to prevent yourself from being ambushed or to make your walk home risk-free, neither of which really make any sense.

No, it doesn't make sence does it? After all, places where orcs, trolls, goblins, etc. Live or camp have a magical aura that makes it imposible for the PC races to be able to sleep, or rest. It is one of the monstrous races special abilities. My, how could i forghet?

If you just fought off an orc invasion, and you know the way back to your town is dangerous, you sit back, rest, eat, re-memorize your spells and then head on. It's not like you have a time limit, and the fact that you can't rest in an SQA is an OOC messure to prevent a wizard resting in the middle of it (not after the end of it).

I really, really don't see how it doesn't make sence.

Think of, say, goblins 1. It's night, and a riser commander appears in that platform. Mist ogres exiting orcs 2, assasin vines, oozes and a shambling mound after exiting trolls, flayers after exiting the bodak quest. This are all spawns that can be right next to the transition to the SQA, or so i've experienced. You could rest outside the SQA to face these, sure, but not if they are next to the transition.

You can't just remove all risks for no reason and PREVENT (read: a safe resting place that the ambushing group has no access to) other people from taking the IC advantage over you being weakened from battle.

If we are talking ICly, what stops you from resting inside an SQA?
And players do have acces to thouse palces, if it is important enough for a DM to allow it.

Use your consumables, scrolls, and trinkets to survive an assault and rely on the benefits that certain classes can offer to longevity. A Wizard's strength is not their ability to fight for a great length of time, but a fighter happens to have that ability and can use consumables to even the odds. If you're so worried about these things then bring more people with spells for your fighters so that your spell book isn't exhausted 30 seconds into the quest after you buffed people.

1) Consumables are... consumable, and they are expensive too. Not all people can powerquest 3 hours dialy to get much gold, or have that time to sell potions in the ziggurat. Additionally, wizards, sorcerers and healers never get anything from the quest loot, at least not with random parties, since they "did nothing". Most of the quest loot is for fighter-type characters, OR a useless 5 charges/use cantrip wand who nobody ever uses anyway.

2) Perhaps it is my timezone, but it's not always easy to find a party. I've gone in powerquest trains without a single spellcaster because sometimes, there simply aren't enough arround.

I hate such long replys but...

There is no IC reason why not to.
There is barely harm done OOCly, but the fact people will probably dare more into far quests, wich should be desirable, no?

So i don't really get why people oppose so badly.

[ScottyB]

I had a nice big post on game design, even citing the developers of Dungeons & Dragons, many of whom worked on the edition that NWN was based on, explaining why they changed so much of it towards the end of 3.x and eventually making the design leap to 4th Edition.

Then I figured no one would read it, so I'll sum it up with: why give characters nice things if you're going to expect them to hold it in reserve even after a quest, which is supposed to be the opportunity for them to show their stuff? Quests are supposed to be those harrowing adventures that draw out an adventurer's potential, as in, get them to use their spells. Just because it happens every day doesn't mean the PCs aren't special for being the people with the power to deal with it.

Being able to rest after a quest creates opportunities. Might that opportunity be "stay outside the town looking for new quests"? Well, as long as the lesser-played quests are near them (instead of other "overdone" quests) then I'd say that's another reason to do this. I always think it's such a shame that the party has to return to town after a quest.

The two cents of someone who's never around.

[lolmagics]

They don't have to return to town at all. You can rest in the wilderness or one of the MANY camps outside of town near your next destination.